Scoot is huge upside. But who did you have in mind? I think most teams are holding on to their stars / solid role players - UNLESS you can get them for an overpay. (Or they pull a Harden ') ) The $20M for Grant comes from web analyses, his agent's words, and the fact that he turned down $50M from Celtics already. We could possibly secure him for $15-$17M APY I was just going off evidence already out there and the fact that he seems like one of Udoka's guys. Every team is going to offer Naz their MLE so you have to go above it to secure him. Also, I thought so about the Room Exemption - thanks for the clarification.
Scoot is huge upside. But who did you have in mind? I think most teams are holding on to their stars / solid role players - UNLESS you can get them for an overpay. (Or they pull a Harden ') ) The $20M for Grant comes from web analyses, his agent's words, and the fact that he turned down $50M from Celtics already. We could possibly secure him for $15-$17M APY I was just going off evidence already out there and the fact that he seems like one of Udoka's guys. Every team is going to offer Naz their MLE so you have to go above it to secure him. Also, I thought so about the Room Exemption - thanks for the clarification.
I was referring to the FA targets, not the draft picks. Whoever we draft will have both upsides and questions. I'd be perfectly fine with Henderson unless we had to overpay for him. Here's the timeline on Williams. - Prior to last season he was in negotiations with the Celtics for a 4 year contract with a total value just over $50M. Let's make it $52M so that it's an even $13M/season. -Supposedly, the sticking point in the negotiations was the amount of guaranteed money. So that means that Boston wasn't even willing to guarantee the entire deal. -Then by the end of the season, Williams isn't even in the rotation for the Celtics anymore. At that point, do you think that Boston would even still offer the same deal they were willing to do prior to the season? I'm guessing No. -So, why then should Houston offer him $20M/year for 4 years. You don't think that's a complete overpay? If someone's willing to pay him that then let them. We shouldn't be the team paying him $20m/season. You don't want to bid against yourself and you also don't want to try to outbid a ridiculous offer. We have $60M in cap space. You don't get that very often. We need to use that money wisely and come away with, at a minimum, somebody that has potential star upside. If we come away with nothing more than three guys who aren't even high end starters then we blew it. Not spending money would be better than wasting it on three guys who don't help us develop into a contender. Usually, you need to get at least one star in place before you worry about adding small pieces like those guys to round out your roster. We've got to keep our options open until we can get a star.
Gentleman & a scholar. Appreciate the response. What do you think of Trey Murphy III? I think he could be a star, but is kind of stuck behind Ingram. He played A LOT last season because... Zion. Really showed what he could do, but you gotta think when / if Zion is healthy, he gets relegated to the bench. Also, in re: Grant. A reasonable / logical contract would be in the $15-$15M APY (in your estimation)?
Personally, I wouldn't. Boston was apparently only offering around $13/season and his stock is lower now than it was then. But I'm not a fan of his game. The Rockets might be.
I love Murphy but doubt he's available. Both BI and Zion have trouble staying on the floor so Murphy is a nice safety net. See my reply to Aruba77 regarding Williams just above.
Don't try to get fancy and pretend there's any way we're winning a championship. Hold onto most assets unless we need them to trade up for Scoot. If we really are signing Harden, just go get Brook Lopez as a defensive/spacing center & mentor for the young guys. Overpay him if you need to (for 2 years only). Pick the best player available at #4 if we can't move up to get Scoot. Trade KPJ for whatever we can get, because there is no possible way we can run Harden/Green/KPJ out there for ~100 combined minutes a game and expect to have anything but the worst defense in basketball. Replace him with any wing who can play some defense and hit open threes. Bruce Brown or Grant Williams would be fine if we can somehow squeeze them in, but I'm not too fussed about which 3-and-D guy we pick up, as long as he plays significantly better defense than KPJ.
I think this is doable (I have worked out the potential logistics previously), but it does take away some of our package 'o picks Beard – Sterling Henderson (2) - Bones Thrilla – KPJ - JayGup Derozan – KMJ - McDaniels Bari – Tari - Bradley Claxton – Sengun – Bryant ; Hardest parts (1) trading up to 2; (2) DeRozan convincing Bulls to trade him to Htown (actually might not be that hard); & 3) Claxton doing the same as Derozan (yeah... that's like the bulk of the acquisitions) What do you think at @aelliott @Corrosion is this a contender in the West + set up for the future (Scoot, Thrilla, KPJ, Bari. Tari. Sengawd)? Note: this is with Harden coming in at a salary of $45M
a) Harden for $45M made me cringe. Please not for 4 years. I still think that Harden ends up getting a 4 year deal in Philly...I know...I know...the rumors. b) I really don't think that the Rockets intend to bring in that many veterans. c) Why Derozan? Cause he and Harden are LA guys? If you're going to get an older veteran (which I don't think that they will), then at least get one that can shoot 3s and play defense. d) no that's not anywhere close to a contender in the West. e) as for the future, it's pretty much our current young guys with our first rounder this year (Henderson in your example). I don't think that there's a realistic deal that immediately makes the Rockets contenders and leaves them setup for the future. Maybe there's a scenario that I'm thinking of but I don't think that's the goal right now.
Yeah... tough situation for the good guys currently. a) I think IF Harden does come and gets what he wants, it will be tough to field a contender. Even if people want to play with him. I am of the belief that he is using the Rox cap room as a lever (fulcrum?) to get what he wants from Philly mgmt. (Which is weird because I would think Morey would give it to him since Morey has so closely tied his wagon to Beard and trying to rebuild that 2017 team.) b) That's like 3 vets among the top 10 rotation... you think the Rox will have less than 3? c) Yes, Derozan because he might be 1 of the other top 50 guys to shake loose & his relationship with Beard. He is not my favorite, but I think it is going to be hard for Stone (giggity) to find a "star" player that is available (hence why Rox are getting all hot & bothered about Beard coming back). I think Derozan has a bad rap on defense. His DPBM is negative for his career, but his defensive win shares is decent and was phenomenal last season. His PER has gotten better since his late 20's. But yeah those long 2's suck & Morey would have had a heart attack with him on the team. I do value your opinion (especially on cap related info). So is there a "star" player that you think the Rox can get? I still think a player like Brown MAY become available for Rox - especially if the Celtics get swept by Miami. You and I both like TMIII, but that's a hard acquisition. If you scored Beard, Brown (or TMIII), & Claxton, that's a good vet group and lays ground work for a contender IMHO. d) Tough to build a contender with our current roster / assets. But if you have that dawg (Himmy) and get hot at the right time, you got a shot. Who will be the Rox Himmy??? e) In a non-perfect, but world that can be envisioned... Beard, Green, Brown, Bari, Claxton supported by New Scoot (or Black), Old Scoot, KMJ (or Trey!), Tari, & Sengawd led by great coaching gives us a shot IMHO. Thanks for your replies, my man. You keep all of Clutchfans grounded.
a)Like I said, I still think that Harden resigns in Philly. He's got more value to them than to anyone else and if he walks for nothing then Philly doesn't have an easy way to replace him. b) To me it wasn't the fact that it was 3 out ot the top 10 but rather that it was 3 new starters. I don't see that happening. c) Derozan just doesn't move the needle for me. Also don't think the Rockets sign a high priced veteran who won't be part of the future. No matter what happens over the remainder of the playoffs, I can't see Boston letting Brown go. They'll never get equal value back for him. They have a legit championship window for the next few years. I have to think that they go for it. That means that they offer the super max and he's off the table. d) The Rockets don't have to try and immediately construct a contender. In fact, I don't believe they're trying to. I think that they're trying to develop their young talent to see what they truly have. e) I think that there's very little chance that the Rockets are a contender in the next couple of seasons. Just making the playoffs will be enough of a challenge.
F-Z....... Only the Spurs and a few other teams have gotten what they wanted and that took them at least a decade. It is not a genie in a bottle wishing well contest. If the Rockest somehow draft alright, do their homework and sign or trade for serviceable players, then this offseason is at least a decent one. Deal with this Phase 2 and Phase 3 ish later when folks‘ heads have cooled off. The 60+ million only works when everyone is patient and wait for the perfect timing to plunder hapless teams of their star players. No hard feelings, not much complaints.
FWIW - I’ve heard a few different draft focused podcasts where Williams has been mentioned as a FA target for a young team - specifically the Spurs and Rockets. I’m sure there are a handful of contending teams looking for switchable big depth too. I think in all reality - Williams will have teams competing for him despite Boston’s lukewarm interest in his fit on the team. FWIW, I’ve liked Grant as a player but admittedly haven’t watch him play recently and I feel like overweight smaller bigs don’t age particularly well in the NBA. If you lose just a half a step it really makes it hard to stay on a roster so I tend to think the functional window of players like that is fairly small…but maybe he still has got it. I do like the idea in principle though of spending a little cash on a non all star but proven vet big who can teach these guys how to play the right way to help speed along some of the developmental lessons these guys DIDNT get the past few years from Silas and fellow rookies.
Sure would be cool if Dame went to Philly. I’m not sure how that would work(seems impossible) but if there is one GM I would never count out - it’s Daryl.
reports saying Lopez and Middleton probably resigning with the Bucks. Josh Hart probably resigning with the Knicks. Nets likely to match any offer for Cam Johnson Lakers likely to match offer for Reaves Porzingis and Kuzma likely resign with the Wiz Poeltl likely to resign with Raptors Draymond likely to resign with GS So who’s left? Harden Grant Williams (Boston doesn’t have cap space to match an offer) DeAngelo Russell - don’t want FVV - will be very expensive Javon Carter Bruce Brown Kyrie - don’t want Jeremy Grant Vucivic - do not want Clarkson - do not want Harrison Barns - don’t want Miles Bridges - don’t want Dillon Brooks - don’t want Gary Trent Jr Naz Reid Seth Curry DiVincinzo This is a very underwhelming list. I think we are in trouble. Fortunately we don’t have to spend all our cap this summer, and we can also use our cap space in trades. We are going to sink or swim with Stone’s decisions this summer. a few names from the “available” players: Gary Trent Jr. 6’5” shooting guard who plays D, shoots 38% career, and will score 18 a night. And he’s only 24 so he could be part of our future core. Yes we have Jalen and KPJ, but Gary Trent Jr is a better shooter and defender and KPJ can be moved. We need guys who can shoot and defend on the perimeter. I dont think u regret giving good money to Trent given his age and career numbers. I also like Grant Williams, Naz Reid, Javon Carter, Bruce Brown, DiVincinzo and FVV (only for the right price). None of these guys are gonna turn the franchise around but they are all quality players.
I think if you score Bruce Brown + Naz Reid on reasonable deals and nail the draft picks that is part of the foundation for future success.
Surely, it's a better roster than the one we watched last year, by far ..... but I don't think it's anything more than a pretender in the West, mainly because if you are keeping Green and pairing him with Harden, whoever is at the 3 spot has to be a special type of defender & Derozan isn't that guy. Teams would have too many options to exploit in isolation situations. Someone has to be a plus defender.
I also was looking at the 2024 free agency class.... Dejounte Murray (ATL) Jaylen Brown (BOS) Spencer Dinwiddie (BRK) Nic Claxton (BRK) Lamelo Ball (CAR) RFA Klay Thompson (GSW) Tyrese Haliburton (IND) RFA Paul George (LAC) PO Kawhi Leonard (LAC) PO Anthony Davis (LAL) PO Lebron James (LAL) PO 99% sure he signs with Htown, but not 100% Tyus Jones (MEM) Jrue Holiday (MIL) PO Bol Bol (ORL) Tyrus Maxey (PHI) RFA Cameron Payne (PHO) Damontas Sabonis (SAC) Pascal Siakam (TOR) O.G. Anunoby (TOR) If I am Stone, I am trying to acquire 2 of those this year.
