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[2014] Should Morey be fired?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by RV6, Sep 19, 2014.

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Should Morey be fired?

Poll closed Sep 26, 2014.
  1. Yes

    57 vote(s)
    13.9%
  2. No

    352 vote(s)
    86.1%
  1. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    The Mavericks were not "inferior". They were not favorites at all. But hardly inferior when they had one of the top 20 players to ever play the game in his prime.

    The spurs were not less talented than Miami. They had way more depth and consistently good players at every position. They were perhaps not as top heavy as Miami.

    Miami was on decline with only LeBron and Bosh playing at a very high level. With wade chiming in inconsistently. The spurs didn't have the record they did without talent.

    Regardless, the talent got those teams with subpar coaches to the finals. And no one said coaching doesn't matter at all. It's just overall not the most important thing.
     
  2. GoRox2013

    GoRox2013 Member

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    Yep. The Heat were BY FAR the better team that year. Why Dallas won? Because they were DEEPER than Miami. They had a better balance of talent minus the starpower. They also had a great coach. Those are 2 things idiots here don't comprehend. Coaching & talent depth wins championships. Incompetent coaching and cap flexibility get you nowhere
     
  3. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    I just don't see eye to eye with what you saw.

    I do think Portland had a game plan for Harden, but from I saw that did more to stop his driving game than his outside game. He missed an abnormal amount of open 3s and outside shots that he hit all season.

    I don't agree that we had a massive talent advantage on Portland. In fact I think our only talent advantage was our 2 best players vs theirs and that didn't play out very well. After that I think Portlands roster was better.

    Like I said before, it's your belief that doubling or doing something different to LMA would for sure benefit us, but I don't think that's a guarantee. We played the favorable odds that he wouldn't keep hitting those ridiculous, contested shots, but sadly for us he did keep hitting them in those first 2 games. And like we saw, eventually LMA cooled off taking those same shots and being defended the same way.

    I partially agree on your yes man theory with keeping him around. I think he agrees with the offensive philosophy Morey preaches and rightfully so, it works. I think Morey likes a guy who is willing to listen to the analytics approach and any info they have to offer. It's pretty obvious that Morey likes the figure head coach whose more leader than tactician and then to surround that coach with the X's and O's assistants for game planning. For that reason I don't think Morey and Les are looking to place blame on McHale when it appears the game plan and strategy is lacking.

    I also wouldn't completely discount how much Les has to say in the coaching decision. Might be all Moreys decision, might not, but in the end Les has last say.
     
  4. Pete the Cheat

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    so what about those other two Heat championships? superior depth and coaching?
     
  5. morpheus133

    morpheus133 Member

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    From what I recall, Morey said that it's a players league, and no matter how good your coach is, your not going any further than your talent can take you. See the results of Rick Adelman with a bad team and Rick Adelman with a good team. See Rudy T coaching Steve Francis and Kelvin Cato vs Dream and Drexler. There are a number of examples of good coaches who have had bad teams and done poorly. A bad team that adds Lebron is going to improve a lot more than if they add Popovich.

    And people seem to forget that Pop coached a number one seed Spurs team that lost to the eight seed Grizzlies a few years back.

    Harden coming to Houston was the result of all the "asset" and cap management that put us in the position to get a star player when one came available. IF not Harden then it would have been the next star willing to come. It also came with some risk in that Harden had never been a star. If "any" GM could do the same thing, then why didn't one of the other dozen lottery teams do so?

    That's hardly the same thing as Lebron only even considering Cleveland and Miami, and Cleveland strictly because he grew up there and his entourage and family pushed him that direction.

    Results matter in the context of the situation. If the only thing that matters is winning a championship and NO GM was realistically going to win us a championship during Morey's tenure, then you have to have some other way to measure results. Unless you can some how reasonably explain how a different GM would have gotten us one or more championships, then not getting that "result" is hardly a failure worth considering. Otherwise I measure success based on what Morey did vs. what I realistically expect some other GM would have done in the same situation. Then I measure how much his mistakes set us back vs. how much mistakes other GM's around the league make set them back. Because no GM is going to be mistake free. You seem to expect that your mystery replacement GM is going to do everything Morey had done right, plus fix all his mistakes and not make any new ones, which just isn't realistic.

    Last season was disappointing, but it was hardly "mediocre". We were the 4th seed in the west, and we lost to a team that got hot at the right time who won the same number of games as we did. There were coaching mistakes, there was under performing by Harden and others, and there were player mistakes like Lin's turn over and Parson losing Lillard on the last play. It sucks and everyone should be mad about it. If that happens again then we discuss whether that means we need a different GM, a different coach, or both.

    Unless you can tell me the role player that we should have added that would have made us favorites to win it all this year, then I would rather have the ability to add a star player in the near future rather than to fill the cap space with role players who give us a slightly better chance than we currently do, but still big underdogs. Besides it's foolish to think that Morey won't be looking to make any moves until next season.

    McHale is on the hot seat and I have no problem replacing him. I think he is roughly average, rather than worst in the league, but it's certainly much easier to argue that you could find a better coach than it is to argue you could find a better GM. Presumably Harden and Howard, along with Les Alexander want to keep McHale though. Certainly Morey isn't keeping McHale against their wishes.

    I get that it was a disappointing off season. I don't really see how a different GM changes that significantly. If RC Bufford or some other top GM in the league says he wants to come to Houston then we can discuss the merits of that move, but realistically that isn't going to happen. The odds of us getting a worse GM are much higher than the odds of us getting someone better.
     
  6. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    You can argue that with a HOF coach and younger and ' better bench players' the Heat would have been unstoppable.
     
  7. Panda23

    Panda23 Member

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    YOU CANNOT STOP PATTY THRILLS YOU CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN HIM!!!!
     
  8. morpheus133

    morpheus133 Member

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    Maybe, but the "better bench players" would come at the cost of the 3 stars. They didn't have the option for both Wade, Lebron and Bosh AND a better bench or obviously they would have done that. Keep in mind that HOF coaches sometimes lose matches they are "supposed to win" too. See the 1 seed Spurs losing to the 8 seeded Grizzlies in 2011.
     
  9. caneks

    caneks Rookie

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    lol, People do not reply that question simply because they do not think that is something worthy of answering.
    There are too many teams that have been running better than Morey did in the last 7 years overall. 9 teams in the west alone. Every one of them had better run in playoffs or played more playoff seasons.

    OK, MEM, POR, SA, DAL, LAK, DEN, UT, LA Clippers.

    Do you still think your god Morey did a really good job?
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. morpheus133

    morpheus133 Member

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    You're right, who wouldn't want to switch places with MEM, Dallas, Denver, the Lakers, or Utah right now? Obviously if we had any of those GM's instead of Morey we would have won multiple championships over the last 7 years. Damn Morey for costing us all this playoff success that even the most medicre of GM's would lead us to. Obviously any of those GM's would have done everything Morey did right, plus fix all his mistakes and wouldn't make any new ones. And other GM's know how to keep their star players from getting injured, unlike Morey who ended Yao and McGrady's career. Which is why all those teams are going to do so much better than the Rockets this season :rolleyes:
     
  11. deshen

    deshen Member

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    Wow, someone talked about sport injuries. You must be from portland. :grin:
     
  12. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    The only problem I have with Morey is he shouldn't have flipped this past roster. I understand letting Asik and Lin go but Parsons should still be a Rocket. I was really hoping that we would have stuck with the starting five of Harden, Howard, Bev, Parsons and Jones. That 1st round exit to Portland was a great experience for them and could have played dividends for them this season coming up.

    But hey it is what it is, lets hope McHale could find some continuity and chemistry with the addition of Ariza in the starting lineup and Terry and Kap filling in the rotational players spots.
     
  13. houactuar

    houactuar Member

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    Talent helps teams win, and cap flexibility allows a team to acquire more talent. Ergo, cap flexibility helps teams win.
     
  14. WinkFan

    WinkFan Contributing Member

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    So, which team won 2 titles in the last 4 years, and which teams won 1? Oh, yeah, the team with the Superstars, and no coaching and talent depth got the 2.

    BTW, the Spurs won 4 titles when Duncan was the frickin' GOAT PF, and 1 now that he's old.

    Superstars win championships.
     
    #134 WinkFan, Sep 25, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
  15. arno_ed

    arno_ed Contributing Member

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    Wow brilliant post:rolleyes:

    First, who called Morey a God? Like I have said many times I believe Morey made mistakes (like every other GM), But his positives outweigh the negatives by a mile.

    First as I have stated before only looking at the play off success of a team is the lazy way (and wrong way) to determine how good a GM has done a job. You have to look at the moves the GM made and look at the situation he started in, and the situation he was in in general (like City, owner).

    On top of that you did not even mention GM's you just mentioned team which had more play off succes the last years. For example which of the 4 GM's portland had during this time is the better GM than Morey?

    If you really want to look into who is the better GM you have to look at every GM you think might be better and look at his moves individually. Which I am sure you will not do, so do not waste my time with just a list of teams.
     
    #135 arno_ed, Sep 26, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  16. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    GMs usually have a better rate of staying at their jobs during the season than head coaches

    Morey probably will fulfill his contract and even extend
     
  17. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    It seems like a lot of you are missing the whole point. No one said that you do not need talent to win the title. Of course the number one thing you need is talent.

    Now on to the Houston Rockets. The talent is already there. You have 2 of the best players at their position, 2 perennial All Stars, 2 of the top 7-8 players in the NBA. ALl NBA 2nd team defense PG. A top 10 SF. How much more talent do you want? Do you need 5 all stars so that McHale can get past the 1st round?

    It's got to the point where you need to round the roster and get a good coach who is respectable around the league and for whom veteran free agents want to play. McHale is a bottom tier coach, a joke of a coach and an embarassment to the Rockets history of coaches. Which top tier veteran free agent wants to come play here? Ray Allen? Marion? Perhaps only Grade A scrubs like Smith or Dorsey.

    Step 1 in getting a championship - Acquire talent. Rockets have that with 2 perennial All Stars

    Step 2 - Get a competent coach who is respected and who veteran want to play for a chip. A coach who can emphasize a style of play, hold players accountable etc. McHale is not. McHale is just a yes man with zero cojones to stand up to anything and holds no one accountable. Lacks basic coaching acumen and is outcoached on a nightly basis.

    Step 3 - Round out the roster.
     
  18. Crashlanded19

    Crashlanded19 Member

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    well written. Everyone sees it. Even our front office but has yet to make any changes. So if they don't care. Should we?
     
  19. caneks

    caneks Rookie

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    There is no need to judge a GM by looking at each move. Every move has a ultimate goal of making the team better, to win more regular season games and run deep in the playoffs. Different people will have different opinion on each move, some think it is good, some not because we all have different understanding and levels of knowledge on the details of those moves. However, the result of those moves and operations by GM in a team could be evaluated by looking at how the team is on playoff runs and whether it is on a consistent basis during the tenure of the GM. I think it is the only way to measure whether you have a good team or not. The regular season is basically the preparation of wining a spot and the HCA of playoffs, so I do not value it much.

    Opinion on each and every move is not objective and the result of the playoff run of the team is. That is where the Morey fans mixed it up.
     
  20. arno_ed

    arno_ed Contributing Member

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    These type of posts really support my notion that most people are idiots. This type of cave man arguments "fire bad, food good" are stupid.

    Again which Portland GM do you think is bettter than Morey (since they had 4 during the time frame you look at).

    So winning is the only way tpo determine how good someone has done his job.
    So since Splitter has won last years championship, and Ibaka didn't I assume you think Splitter is doing a better job than Durant?

    You will judge Blatt the same way as Jason Kidd, the coach of the team that advances further is the doing his job better. Situation be damned, right?.

    I am not wasting my time on people with these caveman arguments like you any more.
     

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