Agreed on McGrady. Most people here act like either (a) T-Mac is completely washed up and useless or (b) he could easily be traded for a Chris Paul or an Amare Stoudemire, no sweat. He's still one of the top 10 most talented players in the NBA when healthy. Giving up on him completely will not be nearly as easy for this franchise as most fans seem to think it would be. As for the McGrady-to-New-York-for-Jeffries deals, you are correct, Larry Hughes's $13.6M expiring contract would most likely be involved in any three-way deal. The third team would get salary cap relief (and a pretty good player) in Hughes, plus whatever fillers from either Houston or New York that it takes. Meanwhile, Houston would get one or two quality players with contracts going beyond 2009-10 from that third team. One simple example (not that I'm saying the Rockets would do this deal) of a possible draft night trade (all salaries based on 2008-09 for trading purposes): New York gets: Tracy McGrady ($20.4M - $23.1M in 2009-10 - expiring) Milwaukee gets: Larry Hughes ($12.8M - $13.6M in 2009-10 - expiring) Houston gets: Michael Redd ($15.7M - $17.0M in 2009-10, $18.3M player option in 2010-11); Jared Jeffries ($6.0M - $6.5M in 2009-10, $6.9M player option in 2010-11); and draft picks (from either New York or Milwaukee) WHY NEW YORK DOES THIS DEAL: The Knicks dump one of only two current contracts that goes beyond 2010 in Jeffries. By trading Hughes's expiring contract (the #7 expiring contract in size in 2009-10) for McGrady's expiring contract (the #1 expiring contract in size), New York clears the way to having enough room to offer two max contracts to free agents next summer (depending on what happens with Nate Robinson and David Lee) and at least get much more leeway in re-signing Robinson and/or Lee. Plus, the option is still available, if T-Mac comes back healthy, to re-sign Tracy and pair him with another max player via free agency. Whether this is enticement enough for the Rockets to pry the #8 pick from New York, who knows? WHY MILWAUKEE DOES THIS DEAL: The Bucks have similar motivation to dump salary, but Milwaukee would do it more for financial reasons and less for free agency reasons. Redd's contract is large and long. By trading for Hughes, the Bucks get back a fairly decent scorer and save $3.4M next season (let alone Redd's $18.3M salary in 2010-11). The Bucks could use these savings to re-sign Villanueva and/or Sessions. Whether this is enticement enough for the Bucks to give up the #10 pick, who knows? WHY HOUSTON DOES THIS DEAL: If the Rockets truly feel that McGrady has played his last game for them, this deal allows them to obtain one of the game's premier shooters in Michael Redd. Redd is capable of putting up 25-30 points any given night and can stroke it from 3. Yes, he has his own injury concerns, but that is the risk when getting a player of Redd's caliber. I already spoke of Jeffries's (limited) virtues. The Rockets would need to get one or more draft picks in this deal in order for it to be truly worth their while. If either the #8 or #10 pick could be had, I'd be all over Earl Clark if I were Daryl Morey. Sure, there are questions about his work ethic, but the guy's a physical freak. Second coming of Lamar Odom. Again, this is only an example. The possibilities are numerous.
Bimathug, i may not agree with everything with you, but i like your aggressive ideas on trading. People on this board keeps singing the same song after failing to win the ring. They just want to bring back the same squad and hope everything works out. I don't like that kind of thinking because if you're not getting better, you're getting worse. That said, i don't like redd. I like him as a player, but he's a guy like allen that if he's not hitting shots, he really doesn't contribute anything else. Plus, he also has recent injury issues and is what 30 or almost 30. I have a idea, let me see if it can be put together. I like some of the stuff NY can offer though. Rox get Deng Minny get Hinrich Chicago get mike miller and mcgrady Chicago would do it to put themselves further in 2010 sweepstakes with 2 huge expring contracts. Miller,Tracy,B.Miller count as 42m worth of contracts. They get rid of hinrich wo oesn't have a role. Houston does it to get a 24yr old mid range scorer. He plays well off the ball. He's a hard worker, great citizen, and a good defender.By unloading 23m and getting back only 10m would drop houston to right about the salary cap before resigning players either artest,wafer or both. Now brooks,deng,lowry,and landry gives the rox a young core who can upside to offset the decline of yao. Minny can really just abbsorb Hinrich's contract. Hinrich would fit well with Al and Love as a young vet. Minny will never be a place of attraction for free agents, so a player like hinrich who is signed for 4 more yrs of a descending contract is appealing. They still would have the chance of offering someone like hedo a contract starting at 10m per. Hinrich,Hedo,love,and jefferson could be a team that would thrust itself back into the playoff picture.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm just offering various alternatives. It doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with them. I actually think standing pat is a more favorable alternative to many of these trades (and probably the vast majority of actual trades that Daryl Morey could possibly make at this point). As for your proposal, it does not come close to working under the salary cap. The Bulls would be getting way too much salary back, to the point of making it a meaningless trade for Chicago. The Rockets would also have to take back much more salary. Also, I just don't see the Bulls giving up Deng just for a shot at a player who may or may not be as good as Deng in the first place. Try using the ESPN Trade Machine. It will help you come up with trades that work under the salary cap.
Yeah, they might not wnt to giv up deng and they really could just keep him and still have big time cap room at the end of the year, but getting rid of kirk, adding a shooter like miller in case they loose gordon can be enticing. Miller,Mcgrady, and Brad Miller equals about 42m. The rox would have to take back that much and having a team like either minny or toronto to just absorb a contract would be nice. What if chicago asked for scola in the deal, but houston got thomas, would you do it?
It still wouldn't even be close. Seriously, I highly recommend that you try the ESPN Trade Machine. You will see where you are going wrong and how you can change the parameters of that deal to make (some variation of) it work. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
do u guys actually think tmac will be traded this summer??? I mean I love the trade ideas....but man u gotta be realistic...he is worth the most coming next trade deadline and Morey isn't dumb as tmac is nothing but a horrible contract RIGHT NOW. HOWEVER IN FEB HIS CONTRACT IS THE HOTTEST IN THE LEAGUE. I saw this idea on a ESPN chat. and it could be done this summer. tmac for hinrich deng
I have long thought we could do something with New York and a 3rd team, based on bimathug's premise that New York wants to dump and will give up talent to get cap space this trade may work: Houston gives up T-Mac and Brian Cook- 26.7 million New York gives up Jared Jeffries, Al Harrington, Q. Richardson, and Wilson Chandler-27.1 million New Jersey gives up- Vince Carter and Trenton Hassell- 20.65 million Houston gets Vince Carter and Jarred Jeffries- take back 22.8- we get a premier SG, ability to bring Shane off the bench, do not give up any core perfromers from this years team and save almost 4 million off the cap to re-sign Ron and Von. Next year's cap will be real tight to re-sign Scola, but we will have several one year deals we may be able to move if economy is still in the tank. We may still need to bring in a veteran PG at the veterans minimum but we would be close to the cap and possibly under it (depending on how much we re-sign Ron and Von for) keeping Les happy. New York gets T-Mac, Trenton Hassell, and Brian Cook- take back 31.1 Million- New york dumps another 6.9 million off next years cap and get 3 ending contracts. Should give them around 30 million to spend next year depending on what they sign Nate Robinson and David Lee for. New Jersey gets Al Jefferson, Q. Richardson and Wilson Chandler- take back 20.8 million-New Jersey gets 2 expiring contracts in Jefferson and Richardson and a young promising SF to play in place of Carter. It is not a total salary sump either as Jeffersona nd Richardson have some value and Jefferson can score. New Jersey saves 17 million off the cap next year and should have around 25 million to spend next year with a great core with a young PG in Devin Harris, a young promising SF in Chandler, and a young C in Brook Lopez. It may work for all teams involved. New York will have to decide if the 6.9 savings is worth giving up Chandler and the chance to re-sign Jefferson at a decent contract size. I think Houston would jump at it, getting a top 5 SG to pair with Yao and a decent backup C to play 15 to 20 minutes a game and can start in a pinch. New Jersey I believe would jump at it, they get younger, get a promising player and save money long term while the franchise is hurting financially.
Who are you trying to kid? The teams that would want to take a $23m expiring deal aren't going be persuaded by whether or not they're in the running for a No. 8 seed by midseason or not. They're teams without clear direction and in serious financial turmoil. For those teams, you better believe unloading a long-term deal(s) this summer for one with one year left -- coinciding with the massive 2010 free agency class -- is a deal they'll consider. Moreover, the peak of the recession, which spurs a lot of these salary dumps, is right now. There are deals to be had, if you have an owner who will take on long-term contracts. The market you'll get for McGrady this summer will be very similar to the one in February.
Teams will say, OMG what made us think we were close, ditch that contract now, or OMG we need to clear space for 2010. In ether scenario, we take back longer contracts in return, but our needs are very specific, and while I think Tracy's contract has value, I'm think that value is being somewhat exaggerated.
Who are you trying to kid? yourself? I have heard experts say this and I think its very logical myself...T-Mac's contract is nearly 24 million next year. For owners that want to drastically cut costs, right now they'll still have to pay T-Mac 24 million with no production from him in sight. HOWEVER, by Feb we would have paid about two-thirds of this money already, mean the cost-cutting owner is only needing to pay about 8 million. Which owner doesn't want to pay 7 or 8 million to get rid of 24 million worth of contracts??? Thats probably the quickest if not the biggest cost-cutting most ANYONE can make, with the exception of perhaps a Marcus Camby salary dump with capspace. Even then you'd actually need a decent player attached with that contract dump unlike in the T-mac which owners mostly likely will only care about dumping salary from tmacs contract and even perhaps star power. Whos to say that this is the peak of the financial recession??? Are you some sort of finance expert? Well there are plenty of teams that know they will be out of contention for a decent run in the playoffs by Feb. I mean for most teams, getting into the first round is meaningless....(see Detroit, Utah)...Detroit even unloaded Billups early on and they knew they wouldn't make any serious noise once Billups was gone. Why would someone want Tmac's contract right now in the Summer??? That means they've instantly placed themselves into top of the lottery next season and how are they gonna get any attendance at all?? from the beginning of the season?? Even Sacramento goes for wins in the beginning of the season! Trust me, owners will much rather prefer having to pay 8 M and not 24M. And great deals will only arise in Feb. Not this summer. Did Kwame Brown get traded for Pau Gasol in the summer?
W22_STREAK, you are leaving out the fact that other owners still have to pay the salaries of the players they are going to trade. Anyone who is going to trade for T-Mac is going to have to give back at least 19 million in contracts. Either now or in February. IF they wait till February, they are still paying the salaries of those players who are going to be traded, approximately 2/3 of the 19 million or about 13 million. It's not like they are going to save 16 million off the books by waiting to trade for T-Mac in February. Also I almost guarentee that Morey will make a move this summer. The front office wants to give the team time to gel and see how the pieces work. If they make a mistake of the team is under-performing then they can make another move in February to try and rectify or dump salary for 2010. Similar to this last year when we brought Ron in during the summer, a deal was made based on opportunity. It was not working out well at the trade dealine that is why you saw the Rockets looking to make another move with Ron and T-Mac as the bait.
I agree with you that T-Mac's expiring contract will be worth more in February than during this summer. That is why my T-Mac trade possibilities were limited to those involving the Knicks, the only team that has the money not to care about the timing of this deal. Also, I don't see the Bulls trading Deng for an expiring contract. Hinrich, on the other hand, could be dealt in such a trade. Hence my earlier proposal of Brooks/Barry/Cook/Dorsey for Hinrich. From a financial perspective (as you alude to in your last post), this absolutely maximizes the Bulls' salary dump. If made after July 1, if just BARELY meets the 125% + $100k rule, with the Rockets taking back the most possible salary.
Good post and good job pointing out that simple fact that w22_streak was overlooking. Damn, maybe you should post more than twice every seven years!?
You're not going to be able to use the trade machine because its based on this yrs salary. Next yr, doesn't deng come off byc? If so, the money works.
The League's hypothetical 2009-10 luxury tax figure is $69.4M NBA Salaries: shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries McGrady + Lowry + Cook ($28.018M) to PACERS for Dunleavy + Tinsley + Daniels + Hibbert ($25.911M) Tinsley + Brooks + Landry + Hayes ($13.255M) to SUNS for Nash (13.125M) Re-sign Artest at around $8M Then add low-cost signings to round out the roster... Pablo Prigioni (TAU: est. $1.28M) Matt Nielsen (Pamesa Valencia: est. $960k) James White (non-guaranteed: $825,497) Brad Newley (drafted/rookie min: $457,588) Maarty Leunen (drafted/rookie min: $457,588) ROCKETS Nash, Prigioni, -vacant- Artest, Dunleavy, Newley/White Battier, Daniels, Barry Scola, Nielsen, Leunen Yao, Hibbert, Dorsey Team salary: ca. $72.462,84M (with Newley) or $72.830,749M (with White) PACERS Ford, Lowry, Diener (player option) McGrady, Jack (free agent), -vacant- Granger, Rush, Cook Murphy, -vacant-, -vacant- Foster, -vacant-, -vacant- SUNS Tinsley, Brooks, -vacant- J-Rich, Barbosa, Dragic Hill (free agent), Dudley, Tucker Amare, Landry, Amundson Shaq, Lopez, Hayes
Player Salaries for 2009-10: Tracy McGrady: $23,239,561 Mike Miller: $9,880,957 Luol Deng: $10,365,000 Kirk Hinrich: $9,500,000 The Rockets would be trading $23.3M and getting back only $10.4M. That trade does not work under the salary cap. The Bulls would be trading $19.9M and getting back a whopping $33.1M. That trade also does not work under the salary cap. The T-Wolves would be trading out $9.9M and getting back $9.5M. That is the only part of the trade that works. If the T-Wolves and Bulls wanted to do a straight Hinrich-for-Miller swap, that would work. Unfortunately, your three-way deal is nowhere near workable under the salary cap, regardless of Deng's BYC status. (By the way, I share your frustration that ESPN's Trade Machine hasn't moved forward to 2009-10. Although I understand that it cannot move forward until various team and player options are exercised, it just bothers me that I cannot hypothetically trade Brian Cook off the Rockets RIGHT NOW.)
NBA teams use this... http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/1/ It actually does a great job of showing you everything, as far as clauses and stuff go... Trade Machine isn't bad either.
LINAS KLEIZAAAAAA i've read it's not likely that the nuggest can keep birdman AND kleiza, so they may let Kleiza go....we need to go after this guy...he's young, has size at 6'8, can play the 3 spot and shoot the 3 well. He can put up some big numbers when he gets PT. He can play physical on drives and occasional post ups....decent handles...takes it the to hole strong, no layups if he can dunk it... I remember i had him on my fantasy team last year and he was putting up some very nice numbers filling in as a starter over a few weeks.....He'd fit very well next to yao.. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pD2ncuy3WF8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pD2ncuy3WF8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Too inconsistent for my taste. Plus, he's restricted so he likely wouldn't come cheap. I'm willing to bet there's a good reason why posters like Nuggets4, A_3PO and others are always trashing Kleiza in the NBA Dish too.
i dont think his inconsistency comes from his talent/skills though, but because the nuggest kept moving around their lineup. They have had some major changes with camby leaving, AI leaving, chauncey coming in, then Nene being out then coming back, kmart being out as well...i think he can be a consistent option in a consistent role.
