Sam, don't you think you have dragged to "Nazi torch" thing out beyond any worthwhile purpose? Yes, it was started by Hitler's regime (the "torch tour," if you will, not the Olympic flame), but what does that have to do with the current kerfluffle? All you are doing is encouraging rants by MFW, etc., and getting various people irritated, in my opinion. Besides wasting your energy. I'm getting more concerned that the Olympics is something the Chinese government is more concerned with for its internal image, rather than its international one. If it were concerned about world opinion, it wouldn't be helping to orchestrate these absurd demonstrations wherever the "torch" has gone. It wouldn't be busy demonizing France (why do people pick on France? I happen to like France and the French!) for the actions of a few. It wouldn't have embarrassed itself helping to bus demonstrators to protests in Canberra. And so on. I think you should drop it, but maybe that's just Rick Deckard, Replicant Hunter, recovering from an android attack. Impeach the Stepford President.
I won't stop attacking the Nazi torch relay until the idiotic tradition is abandoned. Hopefully my posting here will lead to a sea-change. It takes a village.
Please see my other post in the other chinese thread. I think you are half right 50% internal 50% external, I dont thing they are mutually exclusive. China has always wanted to show to the western world how much they have evolved, and this is the perfect chance. Yes, if this is a success, there will also be more pride within the citizens living in China, and would be great publicity for the current government. But, isnt Doesnt evey olympics have some sort of politics behind it? It really depends on how much. John Howard got a lot of praise for his handling of the olympics here, probably one of the reasons that got him re-elected.
Politics aside, from a public relation point of view, the Tibetan terrorists organizations have done them a huge disfavor, whether it was due to the lack of experience, or sheer stupidity, the Paris melee was a disaster. Most oversea Chinese didn't care that much about China, CCP or Chinese government; hey, it's on the other continent, what does that have to do with me ? I have enough of my own worries; Many of them probably were even sympathetic of their cause. However by publicly attacking a handicapped female athlete in broad daylight, Tibetan terrorists lost last hope of EVER being accepted by mainland Chinese, the sometimes-fervent Chinese nationalism is stirred up, San Francisco was only the beginning; in the days of Internet, bad news go fast, within hours the photos, blogs, Internet posts spread across various forums; Chinese students, scholars, professionals, many who are already naturalized became furious. From Apr 3 on, all eyes were on the torch. Before Sammy jumps in, I am going to say one last time, those red-flag army WEREN'T orchestrated by Chinese government; in fact, the Chinese overseas embassies, consulates were 2 steps ****ing slow; long used to the beaucracies where everything must be reported, discussed, approved and executed, the Chinese officials didn't have a clue what were going on. As of French, lol, those idiots were used and dumped; the younger generation Chinese are hot blooded and easily fanned up, just a few photos of Tibetan Independence flags in Paris on the Internet were enough to set off tirades of swearing and cursing; next you know, CarresFour were being boycotted.
Completed forgot about that and yeah i have mentioned over and over again that the support here in australia were organised by student groups. But hey, those that were convinced they were orchestrated by the chinese embassy somehow all disappeared the minute I came on and said "hey guess what, here is first hand experience" No acknowledgement of the fact that they were wrong and that they based everyhing on the Media in the US. Guess what? See how you got tricked? maybe its time to rethink your whole stance? Thanks for using my name
Lol, getting paranoid, huh ? Try to find something better to sustain your argument. The torch relay was first started in Berlin in 1936, it 's been run 16 times, yes, 16 times by various hosting countries including UK, Australia, US, Mexico, Japan, Sweden.... You might want to pick up some lessons from TJ or BigT when it comes to D&D; drinking CNN cool-aid does serious damage to your health.
Next the thing you know, the one-legged torch carrying heroine was being attacked by a Chinese Internet Mob and labeled a traitor for saying that the boycott of Carrefour was silly. Typical.
That's your opinion, based on your personal experiences, and pardon me if I believe your personal account, but also believe that the Chinese government has a hand in these protests, regardless of your "anecdotal evidence." Don't feel bad, because I've gotten grief over my own "anecdotal evidence," from time to time. By the terms of the torch’s beleaguered path from Greece to China, however, organizers called it a victory. "Today was a spectacular success," said John Stanhope, the chief minister of the Australian Capital Territory. Protests of China’s human rights record and its crackdown last month on anti-government activists in Tibet have turned the relay into a contentious issue for the Olympic movement. Many countries have changed routes and boosted security along the six-continent journey to the Aug. 8-24 games. Thousands of Chinese supporters traveled from Sydney and Melbourne for the relay. City officials estimated there were about 10,000 pro-Chinese, outnumbering protesters 4-1. Pro-Tibet protester Thanh Tan Huynh alleged Chinese government officials had paid expenses for ethnic Chinese to travel to Canberra. Stanhope said it was evident that "some central organization" was behind all the China supporters and that he believed the Chinese ambassador had been in contact with Chinese community groups. A Chinese Embassy official who refused to give his name told The Associated Press the government had not been involved in sponsoring any relay supporters. In Beijing, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu sidestepped a question on the issue, instead questioning whether "disruptive elements" were asked if they received outside help. Chinese newspapers reported that 3,000 Chinese flags collected through an Internet donation drive had been shipped to Canberra. http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...view.bg?articleid=1089798&srvc=oth&position=5 BEIJING (Reuters) - Chinese Internet users have rushed to send thousands of red national flags overseas to support the troubled global torch relay ahead of the Beijing Olympics, state media said on Wednesday. Beijing's postal authority had been mailing the flags express and free of charge to overseas Chinese in cities along the route, including Canberra, where the torch relay is to be held on Thursday, the China Daily reported. http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSPEK27296820080423?sp=true ^^^ This wouldn't happen without the knowledge and participation of the Chinese government. Not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, but obviously a political move by the government of China. Other nations might, or might not appreciate their countries being used as platforms for Chinese government promoted political demonstrations. My guess would be that it would depend on the government and their relations with China, as well as their proximity. Witness "shoot to kill" orders by the Nepalese government to their security forces re the "torch relay." I happen to think that's outrageous. If these "torch relays" have reached the point where some governments are going to bew willing to kill or wound their own people to allow them to occur, perhaps it is time to rethink the whole deal. Another story involving Mr. Stanhope, with a bit more detail: THE Chinese Embassy in Canberra orchestrated the mass support for China at the Olympic torch relay by bringing in thousands of students from Melbourne and Sydney, ACT Chief Minister Jon Stanhope says. The Australian leg of Beijing's troubled Olympic torch relay was declared "an outstanding success", despite seven arrests and clashes between protesters and Chinese supporters. More than 10,000 chanting pro-China supporters from across the country flooded Canberra's streets with red flags before dawn before the Olympic flame travelled uninterrupted through the capital. They easily outnumbered an estimated 2000 pro-Tibet protesters who had pledged to peacefully highlight China's human rights record. Mr Stanhope said the thousands of pro-China supporters - who were mostly Chinese students - had been transported to Canberra with the help of the Chinese Embassy. "The ambassador has indicated that he was in contact with representative Chinese organisational groups, most part in Sydney and Melbourne," News Ltd reported him saying. "I don't know the nature of the links or the organisation but I know there was contact between the embassy and Chinese representative groups." But Mr Stanhope said he had no problem with China drumming up local support for the Olympics, the ABC reported. "Just imagine if this had been the Australian torch relay in some other foreign capital," he said. "I'm sure the Australian residents in that particular country at the time would have flocked and would have perhaps expected or anticipated some support from their embassy, so I think it's a quite reasonable thing to do." http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23596285-29277,00.html OLYMPIC chiefs will discuss scrapping international Olympic torch relays for future Games following protests that have disrupted the run-up to the Beijing event. The International Olympic Committee executive board would review the future of international legs of the torch relays at its three-day meeting in Beijing that would begin on Thursday, said Australian IOC board member Kevan Gosper. Asked whether planning for future torch relays would come up, Mr Gosper said: "I would expect that the executive committee will review that.'' He said talks would focus on whether the relays should be limited to the country where the Olympics were to be held, rather than a journey around the world. However, there was no suggestion that the IOC chiefs would discuss scrapping the current torch relay for the August Beijing Games. "My belief is the torch relay will stay on course,'' Mr Gosper said. "There might be adjustments, but I think it would be wrong, actually, to try and do anything more than try to get the torch through to its ultimate destination.'' The Beijing Olympic organisers also vowed that the torch relay would continue as planned. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23517173-5016724,00.html The ambitious "torch relay" of China may lead to curtailing this practice in the future. Considering how politicized this one has become, that's likely a good idea, IMO. Impeach Bush.
Guess who invented "French military success" google queries and have public anger over French? Oh, that's over a war many Americans don't support themselves too, I might add. When the Chinese protest, all the sudden, it's demonizing. Funny hur? Also, EU trade officials were talking about retaliations if boycott of French company continues. Way to convince average Chinese that they actually care about human rights in China! When boycotting is from average citizen and Chinese government actually tries to calm it down. They hang "Paris defends human rights everywhere". It's more like "Paris pretend to defend human rights, until you moved my cheese". Actually I like many a thing French.
You really think so? I am in awe of some of the China Defenders here, you included. Please don't attempt to put me in your class. I am not worthy! Impeach Bush. Send Another Bush to China!
LOL, just read what you select to bold and not to, and jump the shark. "know it...behind it...promote it" blah, blah, where it's clearly reported as an internet drive. If your logic is right, Tibetan protests wouldn't happen without the US government's knowledge, does that make the US garventment "behind it and promote it"? BTW, the articles you paste have already posted somewhere else. How quickly you put others not in your "class", CLASS. It's a good thing you are not in my class. LOL
Who's crying? Don't even try to flatter yourself that you are capable of making anyone cry with your keyboard. I actually enjoy exposing posters like you who has totalitarian way of thinking and use facist way of debating tactic to try to silence anyone who holds a different opinion. Granted, you have tuned it down lately and I haven't seen the random and derogatory insults in your posts for a while. Maybe you are feeling the heat so you don't have the ball to do it anymore? Whatever the reason, it's still a good change and I also have to admit that you did make a feel valid points in your posts before. Let's hope you can learn to become civilized and understand the concept of democracy and freedom so you are able to accommodate different opinions from now on.
I was just yanking your chain to make you bark; out of humor more than anger. This is a basketball BBS and if you came from the culture of the courts you'd be more thick skinned and would have a little more creativity in your retorts. You should probably come back with something about my Momma being fat. I don't really harbor any resentment for Chinese nationalism. It feels great to be a part of a team or a country that's winning some games; even if your coach is a dick. That's camaraderie, comrade. But at spme point, government must conform to the will of the people instead of the other way around or people get abused. China is ruled by some type of unholy oligarchy of generals, party members and industrialist. Who speaks for the people? How will China ever change to an elected government if the youth of China don't see the fundamental need?
Don't even try to change the topic. I am not even debating you about China. If you can read, I have said in my posts before that there is a lot needed to be done in China on the path to democracy. I am one of the people who thinks change in China has to be made. Now, unless you are just trying to act dumb, my beef is with your tactic of coercion in debate. I don't care whether you use this lame tactic in the China threads, the $120 oil thread, the 'Tmac should drive more thread', the 'trade Rafer for Lebron James' threador whatever. I don't give a flying ass to what you want to argue, I just have problem with your facist state of mind that no one can hold a different opinion than yours. And if they do, you would resort to random and derogatory insults. That's as totalitarian and as anti-democratic as it can get in a discussion. You should learn the real meaning of democracy and freedom.
