Someone has tried to convince me to ignore you because it would just be a waste of time to engage you in a debate. Maybe I should have taken the advice. I start to feel it is a waste of time and energy to debate a biased person whose stance is not decided by his independent judgment of an individual event, but rather his overall pre-determined state of thinking.
Uh, I just meant it as a joke about Sammy's debate style. The application to this thread was just too appropos.
^Dubious/Gene, I got your reference but I was jacked into the Matrix and couldn't respond because I was fighting a bunch of agents and their copies.
Why do you bother? As a Nazi lover, he can't just post Nazi pictures and brag about them for pleasure, openly. However, he also can't keep his deep love of Nazis by himself, and he has to somehow let them out. Check out any China related thread, no matter of your nationality, as long as you disagree with him or even just attempt to debate with him, he is having his Nazi picture and references ready as soon as the thread is started. In the name of debating, he can have this cyber Nazi orgasm. Don't bother, and don't give him the pleasure to showcase his Nazi admiration, by replying to him.
Whoa you flipflop more than kirilenko (yes i went there) Two seconds ago, you were telling me that past history cannot be used in this argument because it does not apply to the current setting (where I then gave you logical examples of present situations such as the Iraq War which you OH SO CONVIENENTLY IGNORED) Now has you bring out something that happend almost a centure ago (Nazism and trying to connect it to China?), and using it like a gospel? Great going
The Borgs that I saw in this thread are the group of posters who resort to the tactic of coercion and intimidation by randomly throwing out insults in order to force whoever who holds a different opinion to become in conformity with their collective beliefs and doctrine. These homogeneous collectivized living creatures have no concept of democracy and freedom of speech because they try to suppress the freedom of thinking and will. It's time to look in the mirror.
Would you provide your definition of 'democracy', because I seen it referenced about 100 times in the mega thread by the pro-China side and I don't think there is any way you can invoke democracy in it's defense or claim that someone else is being undemocratic. It just that Orwellian twist of language that supports the 'brainwashed' and 'Borg' labels. We are talking about the subjugation of of a race of people who are given no representation in the government they live under. The last 200 years on this planet have shown that people find this condition untenable to the point of violence. The last 200 years have shown that governments unchangeable by the people can perpetrate some of the most outrageous and egregious calamities upon their peoples and their neighbors (though I will grant that subjugation under English empire was under a quasi-democratic system) Shall we list some? 1. The mass murder of the the Japanese warlords 2. The mass murder of Hitler's dictatorship 3. The mass murder of Stalin's dictatorship 4. The Cultural Revolution of Mao's Communist Party 5. The disappearance of dissenters under various South American dictators Now I suppose you are going to fire back with the genocide in Viet Nam but the US didn't actually become involved until the Communist dictatorship of the North supported by China threatened the Oligarchy in the South. There may actually be no 'lessor of two evils' there. Or, the subjugation of the Native American by Anglo American, and I grant that was disgraceful and horrific; but it should be a lesson learned. Atrocities begin with the dehumanization of the 'other' people. They begin my denying their rights and their dignity. That escalates into a cycle of violence, that in the days of the ubiquitous Kalashnikov, it has no end. So I think the point of democracy is you at least have to fool the people into being participants in shameful governmental actions and you can't fool everybody for long. Democracies, albeit slowly and sometime correctively, do reflect the will of the people, but you have to be able to vote. Would Robert Mugabe's disastrous government ever end without a vote? Would Mexico's PRI party ever have given up power without a vote? Would the balance of leftest and rightest policies thoughout Europe ever be maintained without a vote? There's a saying that a country gets the government it's people deserves. If you think the people of China are not worhty of participation in the decisions that effect their lives and need to be managed like children, the OK, you know better than I.
Democracy gives freedom to each poster to have his/her own opinion. People like you who used heavy-handed debating method by throwing out humiliating insults in order to force other people's thinking to fall in conformity with your own state of mind is as totalitarian as anything can get. It's a repressive way to suppress free will and forbid other people who do not agree with you from holding their own independent opinion. If I have to pick one word to describe your way of thinking, it is 'facist'.
I am not even talking about China there. To address that topic, yes, China has a lot of catching up job to do in order to become truly democratic. While the economic system there is very capitalistic, the political system is authoritarian. Now, if you can read, I say you have no concept of democracy and freedom of thinking. You use humiliating insults to coerce the other posters who do not agree with you to give up their own opinion. You insult them just because they hold a different opinion than yours. Your way of thinking is as totalitarian as one can get. I just find it extremely hypocritical for someone with a facist state of mind like you to preach democracy and freedom here.
Unlike you Sammy, I actually have a life. You know, work, family and stuff. Which is why my response to you was absolutely brilliant. It not only summarizes all your idiotic several hundred responses, devoid of arguments, it is efficient to one word, 8 letters. It doesn't get more efficient than that.
Gee Sammy, aren't the Chinese a herd of sheep following the crowd? In that case the Chinese are merely following the west (US, Canada, UK, Australia, etc) in worshiping the Nazi flame. It's not that they'd want to, aren't just incapable of independent thought? The tide of established western Nazism is too much to resist. LONG LIVE NATIONAL SOCIALISM AND ITS WESTERN MANIFESTATIONS!!!
The Iraq war is a pretty awful parallel to China's invasion and occupation of Tibet - for reasons that you yourself acknowledged. The US has no desire (or capability) of annexing Iraq. In fact the only debate right now is how soon the US will leave Iraq. That alone makes it different. The torch relay is not an analogy to Nazi nationalism - it IS nazi nationalism. Last time I checked it was CHINA who was taking a Nazi tradition (torch relay) and making it into a full-fledged celebration of nationalistic glory. Have other nations followed in this stupid tradition before? Certainly. Have others been as remotely memorable, due to the incredible politicization and nationalism on display in the past months? Nope.
Why don't you go home and cry to your momma, you big crybaby. Dude, it's a basketball BBS. If you want genteel diplomacy maybe you should go post on the UN bulletin board. Autocracy pisses me off, I hate the anti-civil liberties stance of the George Bush administration. It's 100% relevant to the point I was making that unelected autocrats who have no checks on their powers tend to perpetrate the worst acts of genocide. The collective wisdom of the people understands what is unwise or even evil where autocrats tend to allow any means that justify their goals.
That is rich. Invade and fail, apologize then all is alright again right? Then I don't get what the fuss is about Serbia and Bosnia, among other flash points in the world. Next time, just remember to tell the Croats and Muslims in Bosnia to quit their whining. The Serbians failed. That alone makes it different than, say... Hawaii. Question dodging Sammy at it again. Brilliant. The following are the list of host cities that used an Olympic torch: London Helsinki Melbourne Rome Tokyo Mexico City Munich Montreal Moscow Los Angeles Seoul Barcelona Atlanta Sydney Athens And that's just the summer games, if we include the winter ones, oh boy, we got a lotta Nazi worshipers. Funny thing too, somehow Beijing conjured up the image of Nazism in Sammy's find where as true hardcore Nazist/Facists Tokyo and Munich didn't. That's rather odd. Also, didn't those "Free Tibet" groups claim that the Olympic torch is about "peace and freedom?" Hey, why waste the efforts smearing Nazism on China when you have proven Nazi/terrorist connections to Dalai? So it is quite obvious that by supporting Dalai and the so called "Free Tibet" groups, Sammy proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's a neo-Nazi, not that it was surprising. Somehow I feel Sammy's gonna dodge this question again with some idiotic rant.
Did I say I was in favor of the war in Iraq? No, I didn't, in fact I have vocally opposed such. That said - it's a tremendously terrible parallel to the Chinese invasionand occupation of tibet for many reasons. If you don't believe so, check back with me in 50 years. IF there are brainwashed bot-mobs claiming that "IRAQ HAS ALWAY BEEN PART OF USA" then you might have a point.....till then Dodging what? You can't "dodge" the fact that the torch relay was invented by the Nazis, designed by Goebbels, and used as a centerpiece of Riefenstahl's Olympia. There's nothing to "dodge" - it's a simple fact. It's also a fact no other torch relay has ever created a moment nearly as memorable...until now. Congratulations China in following in Nazi footsteps and creating a torch relay of equal or even greater poltical relevance. I don't understand why you are so embarrassed by this. again, query as to why you are so embarrassed? China knew what it was getting into when it decided to stage the most elaborate, politicized Nazi torch relay since 1936....just like it knows what its doing in Tibet by trying to bulldoze their culture under its weight..... LOok, China right now is like the Germany in the 1930's, as a former PRC government official stated last week - it's evident from all your angry nationalist posts. Let's just hope that cooler heads prevail and that CHinese Aggression is contained. THe Japanese may need to be called in on this one.
Then why should the Opium war or any other Western Imperialism in China be relevant? Why should slavery under the Tibetan theocracy relevant? You're just picking and choosing what you want out of history.
Going in circles again are we? Iraq is costing a pretty penny, but Hawaii (and pretty much all of the US), not so much so. So in other words, failed invasions don't apply? OK check. Oh for starters, just off the top of my head, proof that 3 million ethnic Hans are now living permanently in Tibet, proof that the PLA massacred 1.25 million Tibetans in the 1959 uprising, proof that Barry Sautman claimed the lamas were running a prostitution joint, etc. There are couple hundred others, but I'll settle with these three for now. That little bit of fact is no more relevant in the Beijing Olympics than any others prior that used it. Like I said, the Chinese are just sheeps following the crowd. The Brits were the first to lead the way (and here I thought them Inglish were worn enemies of the Nazis), after which the Americans, the Canucks, the Aussies, the Japanese and the Ruskies all followed. I'm hardly embarrassed at all. I called a moron (that'll be you, in case you need help figuring it out) a moron. Nothing more nothing less. I am most amazed by your ability to see obscure links where nobody else can when it comes to China. My god. What a skill.
^ I don't understand much of this rant.....please re-post. All I can gather is that you feel Chinese are "sheeps" following the Nazi tradition. I wouldn't go that far, MFW - but you're on the right track, my dear friend!
