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2 Dead as Protests Break out in Tibet

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Mar 14, 2008.

  1. zazahan

    zazahan Member

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    =====================
    The Facts of Tibet and the Dalai Lama
    A Pamphlet for Better Understanding

    Historic Background of Tibet and Its Status within China

    1. In theTang Dynasty, the princess Wencheng (Tibetan Mung-chang
    Kung-co) married the king of Tibet, Songts?n Gampo (604-650 AD) in 641 AD.
    2. In 1206, Genghis Khan included Tibet in his empire. In the
    mid-1600's, the Mongols allowed the Dalai Lama (meaning “a monk filled
    with wisdom”) to have political power within Tibet. This was done after
    he was named the head of the Gelugpa sect of Tibetan Buddhism in the
    15th century. Ever since then, Tibet was incorporated into the territory
    of China’s feudal dynasties, the Ming and the Qing.
    3. From 1911-1950, China’s control of the Tibet region was loosened due
    to the civil war and anti-Japanese invasion war (World War II), but not
    lost. The government never gave up the land and never recognized Tibet
    as an independent region.
    4. The 14th Dalai Lama appointed Nga-Bou Nga-Wang Jig-Me as the leader
    of a delegation to Beijing to negotiate in 1950 and made The Seventeen
    Point Agreement (wikipedia keyword: Seventeen Point Agreement for the
    Peaceful Liberation of Tibet) which was the same as what happened in
    history since the time of Genghis Khan established Yuan Dynasty. Thus,
    Tibet was peaceful liberated in 1951.

    Pre-1959 Tibet-Serfdom
    The period when Dalai Lamas ruled Tibet before 1959-reforms, has been
    deemed a Lamaist (Buddhist) theocracy. In the modern world, the Taliban
    state in Afghanistan (1996-2001) was another theocratic governance.
    In 1953, the majority of the rural population was serfs. Tied to the
    land, they were allotted only a small parcel to grow their own food.
    Serfs and other peasants were illiterate and generally went without
    schooling or medical care. They spent most of their time laboring for
    the monasteries and individual high-ranking lamas, or for a secular
    aristocracy that numbered not more than 200 families.
    In effect, they were owned by their masters who told them what crops to
    grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the
    consent of their lord or lama. A serf might easily be separated from his
    family should the owner send him to work in a distant location. Serfs
    could be sold by their masters, or subjected to torture and death.
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examples_of_feudalism#Tibet_.2813th_century_until_1959.29)

    Tibet after 1959
    In 1951, when China regained effective control of Tibet and thereafter
    in 1959, reforms were taken to free Tibetan serfs
    (Note for comparison: in the same year, Hawaii was admitted to the Union
    on August 21, 1959, making it the 50th state of USA. After statehood,
    Hawaii quickly became a modern state with a construction boom and
    rapidly growing economy. In recent decades, the state government has
    implemented programs to promote Hawaiian culture.).
    This liberation of serfs in Tibet was the same movement as the American
    Civil War (1861-1864) to end the slavery in the United States under the
    Lincoln presidency. Tibet, as part of China, is equally treated as the
    rest provinces, the same way as US federal government treat California,
    Texas and Hawaii equally to New England 13 states and all the rest states.
    Tibetan exiles trained in a CIA camp in Colorado clashed with Chinese
    forces in 1959 during the celebration of the Tibetan New Year, after
    which the 14th Dalai Lama, with CIA help, went into political exile in
    India. After 1959, the CIA trained Tibetan guerrillas and provided funds
    and weapons for the fight against China. The so-called “uprising” in
    Tibet was actually attempts by the serf owners to try to restore the
    serfdom in Tibet.
    In 1965, the area that had been under the control of the Dalai Lama's
    government was renamed to the Tibet Autonomous Region or TAR.
    The CIA's support to the Tibetan exiles stopped when Richard Nixon
    decided to seek rapprochement with China in the early 1970s. Kenneth
    Conboy and James Morrison, in The CIA's Secret War in Tibet, reveal how
    the CIA encouraged Tibet's revolt against China and eventually came to
    control its fledgling resistance movement. The New York Times reported
    on October 2, 1998 that the Dalai Lama's administration acknowledged
    that it received $1.7 million a year in the 1960s from the CIA. (For
    more detail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet)
    Terrorism, in the modern sense, is violence against civilians to achieve
    political or ideological objectives by creating fear.
    A group called the Tibet Youth Congress has been gradually developed
    into the Al-Qaeda-like organization. The riot in Lhasa, Tibet, on March
    14, 2008, was not a peaceful demonstration, but a terrorist attack
    against the civilians on the Lhasa’s streets.
    The Dalai Lama, a front man for "non-violence", had refused to condemn
    the violence initially and later even threatened to have more severe
    violence, i.e. the militant wings of his groups launch terrorist attacks
    against innocent civilians and infrastructures.
    The Dalai Lama agrees that “Tibet is a part of the People's Republic of
    China. It is an autonomous region of the People's Republic of China.
    Tibetan culture and Buddhism are part of Chinese culture.” When US
    government repeatedly urges China to have dialogue with Dalai Lama,
    there is a fact that has long been neglected that Dalai Lama should
    dismiss the Tibetan government-in-exile in Dharamsala, India, along with
    its parliament and other governmental organizations and abolish its
    constitution to support his claims.
    Ten Facts You May Not Know About Dalai Lama and Tibet

    Fact #1: Tibet became part of China in the 14 century, 130 years before
    Columbus discovered America.

    Fact #2: Tibetans suffered serfdom under the regime of Dalai Lama before
    1959. Dalai Lama and the ruling class who made up of 5% of Tibetan
    population owned all the land, while the rest 95% of Tibetans were
    slaves, treated as “things” or property by Dalai Lama and other slave
    owners. They even had leg-irons on their bodies to be prevented from
    fleeing!

    Fact #3: It is not invasion. China peacefully freed Tibet and Tibetan
    slaves from a long-time serfdom regime in May, 1951, through a
    negotiation process with Dalai Lama and his representatives. Tibet has
    since then re-controlled as part of China, “Xizang (Tibet) Autonomous
    Region (TAR).

    Fact #4: Dalai Lama was appointed by the Chinese government as the Vice
    Chair of National People’s Congress in 1954 and continued to execute the
    autonomous power in Tibet until 1959.

    Fact #5: For over fifty years, Tibet, as the “Xizang (Tibet) Autonomous
    Region (TAR)” of China, is totally tax-free! China never levied a penny
    on Tibetans’ business or incomes or any properties.

    Fact #6: For over fifty years, Chinese government has funded
    infrastructures include roads, railroad, bridges, electricity lines,
    water and sewer systems, public schools, hospitals and clinics, and
    recreational facilities, many of which are totally free to Tibetans.

    Fact #7: Ever since 2001, China has launched a “Help Tibet” Partnership
    Program to encourage businesses and other local governments in wealthier
    part of China to invest in Tibet and to help promote the economic growth
    in Tibet. The capital investment totaled over $900 million dollars in
    the past seven years.

    Fact #8: Tibetans are protected by the Constitution of China to practice
    their religions. The overwhelming majorities of those Tibetans who
    venture across the Himalayas each year to India are NOT refugees, but
    are pilgrims, and most of them do so with the intention of returning.

    Fact #9: The cost of violent riots since March 14th, 2008: 5 public
    hospitals, 7 public schools, 908 local business stores, 120 homes, 64
    cars, and 18 PRECIOUS LIVES of civilians.

    Fact #10: It is CIA who has been funding, training and arming the
    Tibetan protestors since fifty years ago. And you know where the CIA
    money comes from, do you?

    Listen to this person who figured out the true Tibet by himself: "Before
    I came, 'free Tibet' seemed to be such an obvious idea...now I have been
    here and have talked to so many Tibetans, I am not at all sure whether
    Tibet needs to be an independent state and I am not at all convinced
    that most of the Tibetans even want that."
    --- John Moge, Producer of Tibet Diary:Tibetin Two Americans' Eyes(Video).
    Available at:
    http://newschecker.blogspot.com/2007/12/tibet-diarytibet-in-two-americans-eyes
     
  2. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23594307-2,00.html
     
  3. tracy hong

    tracy hong Member

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    http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCASP11894820080424?sp=true

    "It was highly organized," Free-Tibet supporter and Australian Greens Senator Bob Brown told Reuters. "Australians will feel a little bit uncomfortable by the fact that communist China came to town and just showed it can buy anything."

    China denied the charge. A 2006 census recorded 207,000 people in Australia who were born in China.
     
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

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    I thought these "protests" were all spontaneous? Whoops!




    Impeach Bush.
     
  5. langal

    langal Member

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    I'm pretty sure that there were Chinese groups who helped organize the pro-China protests but for the journalist to equate it to "rent-a-crowd" sort of shows her bias. Just about all the Chinese posters (in China or not) have been pretty pro-China - and I don't think they have been because the big bad PRC is paying them to do so. I can see the same sort of feeling for Chinese in Australia too. Also - nothing wrong with using a website to help promote and organize a rally. The writer uses the word "admitted" as if there is something wrong about that. I have no doubt that the Chinese government helped - but to insinuate that the protesters are mainly just mercenaries is not honest. I mean are we all brainwashed borg? Or paid off now? Are Chinese brains just weak or greedy or both?




     
  6. longhornchampno

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    The Chinese officials might have been involved too much to help supporters to attend the torch run. But it is beyond r****ded to call it "rent-a-crowd". Is he trying to imply that the crowd were 'paid' to be there? I guess that's exactly why the media is being called biased. They try their best to nit-pick a questionable issue and twist it around to make it sound 10 times worse than it was. No one tries to deny the 'convenience' of free transportations. But implying that the supporters were paid and tried to insult them in that way is low and false journalism with pathetically low moral standard of journalism. Whoever tried to cite this article to make an argument about anything needs to look in the mirror and ask himself what kind of person he is.
     
  7. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Well we all know there is no media bias against China and Chinese in the western world, it is just your imagination at work.
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    ^ LOL, so Chinese government covertly, without permission, sponsors pro-China nationalist demonstration on foreign soil, complete with harassment and intimidation of opposing views. Sells it as spontaneous outpouring of support. All the while, China claims that the tremendously stupid Nazi Torch Relay is a non-political (LOLOLOLOLOL) spectacle.

    The problem - according to the Chinese point of view, is that the pro-Chinese protesters covertly recruited for this state-sponsoered affair were not compensated well enough to be labeled rented - accordingly the western media is the REAL enemy here.....

    :rolleyes:
     
  9. clutch11

    clutch11 Member

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    Liar.
     
  10. clutch11

    clutch11 Member

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    Fact #11: Da Lie Lama. :D
     
  11. longhornchampno

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    How would I be surprised by a pre-programmed response from a borg with the name "SamFisher' given by his programmer? Your repeated tactic of nitpicking issues and make it out like it is 10 times more serious than it was is as pathetic as the reporter.

    Hi SamBorg, now would you please tell us what the amount of the rent payment is? I will be waiting for the answer.

    And right, shouting out "Liar liar" is the worse intimation that you have ever seen. It is even worser than trying to attack a handicapped person in a wheelchair. Hey SamBorg, this post has served nothing other than once again exposing how hypocritical you are as a borg.
     
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Nit-picking issues - like taking the phrase "rent-a-crowd" from an article and making it your overarching focus, rather than the story?

    Yeah you PRCbots would never do anything like that........
     
  13. longhornchampno

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    Hi SamBorg, so you have no problem with the false journalism that they lied about the protesters had been paid and even condone the lie? Call me '<SamFisher_lame_labeling_tactic>borg' as you want, I dare you to find one single post of mine which justifies the 'PRCborg' lame label that you shamelessly tried to put on me. I have said before that I support free determination in Tiber and I do not support the uncompromising attitude of the CCP in dealing with the Tibetans. But I also have problem with the hypocrites who try to use the oppressive way of debating tactics to insult the other people who hold different opinions than they do. These people have no idea what freedom of thinking and freedom of speech is. They do not know what democracy is really about. Also, unlike the hypocritical borgs like you whose views as related to China are predetermined and are so predictable that everyone knows what you are going to say before they even read your posts, I do have different opinions on different individual issues even though they are related to the same topic. All I have been doing in this thread is to expose hypocrites like you who looks away from the pathetic low moral standard of the media (twisting facts, making up lies, doctoring pictures, etc) and responds mechanically to any issue according to your pre-programmed point of views based on the party-line. You possess no free thinking at all and all your posts are pre-determined and picked randomly from a data base created by the programmer who created you.
     
  14. zazahan

    zazahan Member

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    On Tibet and Propaganda: Follow the "Information"

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/15/224155/744/780/492483

    Abstract:

    The propaganda war is on and there are two sides to this coin.

    Point in fact for the purpose of this discussion: The Chinese media is controlled by the communist government. No question. Do they use their media to further their cause? Certainly.

    Who is on the other side of the coin?
    You may be surprised...

    Zwoof's diary :: ::
    This is where the news is fed....

    The Chinese are not particularly good at propaganda outside of their sphere of influence. Their expertise is to control the narrative by shutting down sources of information internally. In these times of immediate access to damn near every iota of information, this is a losing battle for the Chinese.

    The stifling of information also gives any opposition opportunity to fill the void with their "ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause".

    As a result, it is difficult to get information out of Tibet. We are forced to rely on other sources. The leading source of "information" from Tibet and into Tibet is Radio Free Asia (RFA).

    Radio Free Asia (RFA) is a private radio station funded by the United States Congress that broadcasts in nine Asian languages.

    Radio Free Asia was originally a radio station broadcasting propaganda for the US-American government in local languages to mostly communist countries in Asia. It was originally founded and funded in 1950 by the CIA.
    Wiki

    I didn't understand how a "private" radio station could be funded by the American Government and I became worried about the CIA link to RFA so I researched farther.

    I was relieved to discover that RFA is not controlled or funded presently by the CIA.
    Whew, I feel better now knowing RFA is funded and regulated by the
    Broadcasting Board of Governors.

    But then I wondered who is on the Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG). I discovered that the BBG is headed by Bush appointee, James K. Glassman. Condi is also on the board. Reading Glassman's bio, I then discovered he is a Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

    from wiki...
    AEI lists their scholars and fellows on their web site. Some prominent current or former AEI scholars and fellows include the following:

    * John R. Bolton, former U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations.

    * Lynne Cheney, wife of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney, AEI senior fellow.

    * Reuel Marc Gerecht is a resident fellow. He is the director of the Project for the New American Century's Middle East Initiative and a former Middle East specialist at the CIA.

    * Frederick Kagan is a military historian and signatory of Project for the New American Century manifesto titled Rebuilding America's Defenses (2000) along with his brother Robert (co-founder of the PNAC) and his father and fellow neo-conservative, Donald Kagan.

    * Michael Ledeen was previously involved in the transfer of arms to Iran during the Iran-Contra affair — an adventure that he documented in his book, Perilous Statecraft: An Insider's Account of the Iran-Contra Affair.

    * Richard Perle served on the United States Defense Policy Board and is a former Assistant Secretary of Defense.

    * Paul Wolfowitz (Visiting Scholar), A "major architect of President Bush's Iraq policy and, within the [George W. Bush] Administration, its most passionate and compelling advocate.

    * John Yoo, formerly of the Office of Legal Counsel, and a professor at Boalt Hall, is a visiting scholar.

    From the AEI website:

    AEI's scholars and fellows are responsible for conducting research and writing on subjects of their individual knowledge and interest, disseminating the results of their research through publications and presentations at AEI and elsewhere....

    Now I'm worried again. I want to know what's actually going on in Tibet. Do I trust the Chinese Media? No.
    Do I trust information that I know is strongly influenced by the AEI and the BBG? No.
    And neither should you, no matter how much empathy you feel for the people of Tibet.

    As you can see from the stellar list of war criminals pigs above, the AEI is an arm of Project for a New American Century (PNAC).

    These scoundrels are not interested in Tibet or the plight of the Tibetan people at all. They are interested in global conflict.

    PNAC's credo is officially to muster "the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests". PNAC states that the US must be sure of "deterring any potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role" -

    ..and who can forget this

    "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor"

    ...and then there's this

    America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire.

    The death of the NeoCon movement has been greatly exaggerated.
    They are alive and well and up to their old games.

    Remembering the deceit and criminal actions of these Chickenhawks responsible for the current fustercluck in the Middle East, are we to trust them at all in controlling the information coming from and going into Tibet and neighboring regions?
    Are the Tibetans to be the new Iraqis, pawns in a global game of world domination proposed by the rogues gallery listed above?

    We have seen distortions by all sides during the current situation in Tibet.

    Stuff like this bothers me..

    The Tibetan government-in-exile says up to 140 were killed in the protests ... The U.S. government-funded Radio Free Asia said Saturday it had unconfirmed ...
    news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080405/ap_on_re_as/china_tibet

    And there have been some reports on Radio Free Asia that two people were .... Tibetan rights groups say nearly 140 Tibetans were killed, including 19 in ...
    www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88236362&ft=1&f=2100302 -

    Mar 18, 2008 ... "We have unconfirmed reports that about 100 people have been killed ... US-based Radio Free Asia on Saturday also quoted Tibetans in Lhasa ...
    www.thaindian.com/news-snippet/

    Mar 18, 2008 ... Radio Free Asia, a radio station funded by the U.S. government, .... in India said about 100 were believed dead, citing unconfirmed sources. ...
    forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=116551

    Radio Free Asia, funded by the U.S. government, quoted a Lhasa resident saying that as Tibetan rioters ransacked shops, police were firing "live ammunition" ...
    www.thestar.com/printArticle/346411

    The U.S. government-funded Radio Free Asia said it had unconfirmed reports ...Forbes

    Apr 5, 2008 ... The London-based Free Tibet Campaign said Friday police fired on ... The U.S. government-funded Radio Free Asia said it had unconfirmed ...ABC

    All of these "unconfirmed" reports originating from Radio Free Asia appear to contradict eyewitness reports from a BBC reporter on the ground during the riots and a German reporter that interviewed local Tibetans in Lhasa that I have linked to below.

    Watch and listen to this from Exile Government spokesperson Dawa Tsering as he explains how they gather information for dissemination on RFA and more shockingly, his rationalization that beating Chinese and Hui people is "non-violent" and that the deaths of the 5 young girls, the 10 month old baby and others that were immolated as they hid from the rioters were "accidents" because they didn't run away fast enough. This is the epitome of bad PR and irresponsible journalism as well as a heretical view of non-violent Buddhism.
    I have double checked this and can say that this representative for the Government in Exile said this on Radio France Internationale, But, I know some will claim it is bogus so here's the links.

    Source: www.tibet.com
    This site is maintained and updated by The Office of Tibet, the official agency of His Holiness His Holiness the Dalai Lama in London. This Web page may be linked to any other Web sites. Contents may not be altered.
    Last updated: 27-Feb-2008
    www.tibet.com/NewsRoom/newoot1.htm

    Mr. Dawa Tsering, Additional Secretary at the Department of Information and International Relations will be the new representative at the Taiwan office.

    Department of Information and International Relations

    Kalon - Kesang Y. Takla (Mrs.)
    Secretary (Information) - Thubten Samphel
    Secretary (International Relations) - Sonam Norbu Dagpo
    Secretary - Lobsang Tsultrim Jeshong
    Additional Secretary - Dawa Tsering

    This is the link to Radio France Internationale's website that verifies the interview took place on April 2, 2008. Sorry, it's in Chinese, but it is a transcript of the interview with Dawa on the official website of RFI.

    http://www.rfi.fr/...

    Wiki
    Radio France Internationale (RFI) was created in 1975 as part of Radio France by the Government of France.
    RFI operates under the auspices and primary budget of the French Minister of Foreign Affairs. It broadcasts in various languages, including English, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Chinese and Spanish.

    This is what Dawa Tsering said in Chinese with English translation.


    http://www.youtube.com/...

    And now a word from a real journalist
    James Miles, a reporter for The Economist and BBC, was in Lhasa by chance when the riots broke out he was allowed to stay and was unattended. Below are some cuts of his eyewitness account that was shown on CNN International on March 20th .

    Q. How easy was it for you to see what you wanted to see?

    A. Well remarkably so, given that the authorities are normally extremely sensitive about the presence of foreign journalists when this kind of incident occurs.

    Q. What you say you saw corroborates the official version. What exactly did you see?

    A. What I saw was calculated targeted violence against an ethnic group, or I should say two ethnic groups, primarily ethnic Han Chinese living in Lhasa, but also members of the Muslim Hui minority in Lhasa. And the Huis in Lhasa control much of the meat industry in the city. Those two groups were singled out by ethnic Tibetans. They marked those businesses that they knew to be Tibetan owned with white traditional scarves. Those businesses were left intact.

    A. Well the Chinese response to this was very interesting. Because you would expect at the first sings of any unrest in Lhasa, which is a city on a knife-edge at the best of times. That the response would be immediate and decisive. That they would cordon off whatever section of the city involved, that they would grab the people involved in the unrest. In fact what we saw, and I was watching it at the earliest stages, was complete inaction on the part of the authorities. It seemed as if they were paralyzed by indecision over how to handle this. The rioting rapidly spread from Beijing Road, this main central thoroughfare of Lhasa, into the narrow alleyways of the old Tibetan quarter. But I didn't see any attempt in those early hours by the authorities to intervene

    Q. When you were told to leave, what were you told?

    A. Well I had an 8-day permit to be in Lhasa. That permit began two days before the rioting, on March 12, and was due to run out on March 19. My official schedule was basically abandoned after a couple days of this. Many of the places on my official itinerary turned out to be hotspots in the middle of this unrest. They left me to my own devices. I was stopped by the police at one point, taken to a police station. They made a few phone calls and then let me go back out on the streets full of troops and police carrying out the security crackdown. They insisted however that when my permit did expire on the 19th that I had to leave. I asked for an extension and they said decisively no.


    Another report from a Western journalist that was in Lhasa

    Georg Blume, a reporter for the German newspaper Die Zeit, was one of the few Western journalists to get into Lhasa after the riots. He arrived on March 15, he said, and saw huge areas damaged by riots, fires and looting.

    He says some Tibetans who took part in the riots said they were proud that they were finally able to stand up to the Chinese; others said they were ashamed of the violence.

    They complained about social discrimination, unequal pay and rumors that almost everyone had heard that Tibetan monks had been arrested, and even killed, in the days before the riots.

    As much reading as I have done on this, I have yet to find any mention of Monks being killed "in the days before the riots".
    Where did these rumors originate? If I have missed something, please inform me.

    Who "marked those businesses that they knew to be Tibetan owned with white traditional scarves"? Who spread the rumor that Monks had been "killed in the days before the riots"? Why did this happen just a few days before the elections in Taiwan and the Olympic Torch Relay?

    I've previously written on the geo-political and socio-economic forces that must be considered in this region. If you haven't read this, please do so. At least check out the maps I included. (Speed reading is allowed).
    Here

    The civilian Tibet people were provoked to riot. It was not a religious uprising but a race riot manipulated by a group that desires conflict by any means.

    Perhaps the PNAC crowd and their tool George W. Bush are promoting the current instability in Tibet using the issues of Human Rights and Freedom of Religion to further their goal of "A New American Century". A large part of the dis-information is coming from Radio Free Asia, which you can plainly see is an organ for The American Enterprise Institute (AEI) and the warhawks at the Project for a New American Century (PNAC). Motive and opportunity.

    They could actually care less about why people are fighting, just as long as they are fighting. And if people need a little nudge, they can catapult just about anything they believe to be disruptive into not only the MSM but the only source of information available to the victims of their twisted worldview, The Tibetans, via Radio Free Asia.

    Or perhaps the Chinese desire chaos as the sports world turns its eyes to Beijing. This seems illogical and highly doubtful in my opinion. Opportunity but no motive.

    Whoever instigated the riots, the result is the angry confrontation of two different groups staunchly arguing two different arguments benefiting only those that desire conflict, and any conflict will do. One side is claiming religious persecution, which is a valid claim. The other is arguing national security claims as it pertains to border security and access to vital resources. Proposed solutions by either camp leave no room for compromise, which creates the desired effect of instability in the region.

    Remember this? It got a smattering of coverage in America when Bush said this during a BBC interview just this past February.

    People have written off the Middle East. It's impossible to change the conditions there. Let's just ignore it. Or let's promote stability, which was part of the foreign policy of the past. I chose a different course. Stability didn't work. Stability created the conditions that were right for these terrorists to emerge and recruit.

    You might have to read that two or three times as it is a direct quote from George W. Bush.

    During the same interview, he also said..

    There's a lot of issues that I suspect people are gonna, you know, opine, about during the Olympics. I mean, you got the Dali Lama crowd. You've got global warming folks. You've got, you know, Darfur and... I am not gonna you know, go and use the Olympics as an opportunity to express my opinions to the Chinese people in a public way 'cause I do it all the time with the president. I mean. So, people are gonna be able to choose - pick and choose how they view the Olympics.

    ...in a public way? What does he do in "a private way"? Easy answer, he lets his catapulters do it in the dark, behind the scenes. Stability doesn't work you know?

    We are caught in the middle (information-wise) in The War of Propaganda, some of us are aware of this. Others that rely solely on news from The Main Stream Media and their feeders are not aware of the powerful people that catapult the propaganda and are easily swayed by emotional images, distortion, and the omission of facts from both sides to "further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause".

    The Tibetans are being used. The Buddhist religion is being used.

    If the thugs at AEI and PNAC have their way, the ethno-Tibetan area would be no more a "zone of peace" now than it has been during anytime in history. It has always been an area in conflict. There is no such thing as a brief reading of Tibetan History, it goes on and on, war after war for thousands of years.

    Ancient warriors fought over the Silk Road trade route. Modern warriors will fight over the oil pipelines that have replaced the old trails through these lands and the waters that flow from its glaciers. The Tibetan Plateau contains the sources of drinkable water for 1/2 of the world's population. Water, the next oil.

    The Chickenhawks have manipulated this into a religious issue, which then creates the Human Rights issue, which if they can properly stoke the fires of fear and hatred, will turn the area into a group of warring states. America (hell yeah) wins. It would become a Zone of War, "deterring any potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role" - but America wins.

    Yes, we are deeply engaged in a Propaganda War best described by Noam Chomski

    The beauty of the democratic systems of thought control, as contrasted with their clumsy totalitarian counterparts, is that they operate by subtly establishing on a voluntary basis-aided by the force of nationalism and media control by substantial interests- presuppositions that set the limits of debate, rather than by imposing beliefs with a bludgeon. Then let the debate rage; the more lively and vigorous it is, the better the propaganda system is served, since the presuppositions (U.S. benevolence, lack of rational imperial goals, defensive posture, etc.) are more firmly established. Those who do not accept the fundamental principles of state propaganda are simply excluded from the debate (or if noticed, dismissed as "emotional," "irresponsible," etc.).

    There is more here than meets the eye. Even more so when the eye has wool pulled over it. The masters of geo-political jujitsu have twisted progressive beliefs in equality, freedom and tolerance into a means to create chaos and instability to impose their twisted desire for global power at any cost.

    There has to be a better solution than falling into the NeoCon trap. Demonstrating against a flame serves no one but those that thrive on fanning fires of hatred. An Olympic boycott serves no one but those that try to divide nations instead of uniting them even if it's only to play games peacefully for a few weeks in August of 2008.

    Heping (peace)
     
  15. zazahan

    zazahan Member

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    Talking about Genocide, many were fooled by the Main Stream Media for starting the war. The result -- "A new study estimates that 1.2 million Iraqis have met violent deaths since Bush and Cheney chose to invade. "

    http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/62728/

    And sure enough everyone knew that "Iraq war was really for oil", which was confirmed by Greenspan.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article2461214.ece

     
    #1215 zazahan, Apr 24, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
  16. michecon

    michecon Member

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    LOL, why to write a story where your central quote is speculation, yet to title it to appeal to the certain reader base. No wonder Sam and Deckerd all jumped in.


    "I don't know the nature of the links or the organisation but I know there was contact between the embassy and Chinese representative groups."


    FYI, there was call for support in Canberra on Chinese websites from a long time ago. There are also call for donation of Chinese flags sending from China. No doubt, Chinese consulate may play a role in getting those flags to respective student groups etc. But what crap writing. In fact, BBC story did a much better job than this.
     
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Let's see, maybe because the Australian government confirmed it? Read the first sentence. Do you know what ACT stands for? Evidently you don't.

    You've already conceded that the CHinese state was involved in covertly staging pro-PRC demonstrations/intimidation campaigns on Aussie soil - but like a good little PRCbot, let's just focus on the MEAN OLD WESTERN MEDIA DENYING CHINA ITS RIGHTFUL PLACE OF AWESOMENESS.

    This is the world stage, this is the 21st century, these are our rules - the same ones that we are subjected to.

    If you can't stand it CHina - take your lead painted toys and go home.
     
  18. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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  19. zazahan

    zazahan Member

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    Someone mentioned toy recalls. Let's review the rather old story:

    Who Should Be Responsible for Toy Recalls

    http://newschecker.blogspot.com/2007/11/who-should-be-responsible-for-toy.html#links

    And an even older news:

    Late apology from Mattel to Chinese for the Toy Recalls

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20903731/

    Next time please use another excuse to blame the Chinese because this one does not work so well. :cool:
     
    #1219 zazahan, Apr 24, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
  20. MacFu

    MacFu Member

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    I'd think posters like you who feel the need to resort to the tactic of coercion by randomly and persistently throwing out insults in order to force the other posters who do not agree with you into conformity are the one who have inferiority complex. You really need to learn what the true meaning of democracy and freedom is.
     

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