Amusingly (at least to me), when I first started reading your posts in this thread I thought to my self, "Well, I guess there are some Chinese people who can think for themselves. I guess they aren't all mechanically repetitive in their verbatim recitation of Propaganda Ministry dogma." For a very brief moment, I was experiencing a challenge to my view of the Chinese populace. I was genuinely willing to let contrary evidence adjust my thinking. Then I read where you are from New Jersey, or wherever you are from. That was the end of that. This happened one other time in this thread with the Taiwanese pro-China poster (I forget exactly which moniker). This is a 100% true story. Like a ‘double blind’ study, it pretty much validated in my mind all my views on the nature of the state managed media in China. I’m sure you want to explain me away as a stupid western racist China-hater, who just want to keep China down, but I genuinely think there is something there that you don't want to see. I believe that I am willing to see evidence to the contrary, but I just don't see it. Honestly. I sense a noticeable difference over the course of the thread between your discourse, and the discourse of one born in China, even though I disagree with both equally as much.
Point taken. I am just trolling most of the time. On a serious note - I am from NJ. The Nets suck at bball and the Rox got Yao so I became a Rockets fan and found this forum. I do talk to people Chinese ppl. Am one myself. They are not brainwashed by the Ministry of Propoganda as many have not lived there for many years. In fact, most of them are descended from KMT that fled to Taiwan so obviously, they bear the PRC no love. Some actually want a Free Tibet. Honestly thought, the free tibeters I talk to about usually know a lot less about the occupation than the pro-Chinese I talk to. They seem to come moreso from an emotional point of view. I believe what you are seeing is moreso Chinese nationalism and an actual belief that the PRC presence in Tibet is benign. Some posts by supposed Tibetans here seem to indicate that there actually have been some benefits to the Chinese occupation. I do not believe that the PRC is there for humanitarian purposes. Just as I believe the US is not in Iraq for humanitarian purposes. However, I do think China does have an argument to stand on and the pure rage of some of the "Free Tibet" crowd really seems misplaced. I also find it understandable why Chinese ppl might bristle at "Western" condemnation of human rights. Some of the condemnation is justified. But if you have actually been to China, you would know that we are not mindless borgs living under constant threat. Also - these same Western nations tried to colonize China, etc. etc., opium, etc. I think you have to admit that some anti-Chinese racist undertones have entered this very forum. That's what my trolling posts are directed at. Maybe I should get another account here as a "troll" account.
HYPERBOLE？？ SO FEW PPL??? I'm sorry r u serious???? well, let me ask u a question,u say the world disagree with China's policies towards Tibet, what's on ur mind the China's policies are? does the chinese gov. ask us to kill tibetants,hijack, rob, and plunder tibetants??? where did u get these message?? from CNN, from Fox, from all the media distortin' China and hurt Chinese ppl's hearts?? why don't u go to Tibet n just admit u r wrong? ? u must be VERY VERY surprised to find that in this region that ppl have no so-called HUMAN RIGHTS for a long time but lead such a peaceful n even prosperous life. Chinese government is usin' Olympic as political purpose, can't u ask urself it is western media or DL or any other interst groups that usin' Olympic to achieve their purpose???? who is attackin' who????? http://vhead.blog.sina.com.cn/player/outer_player.swf?auto=1&vid=12417440&uid=1401913474 click it, n argue with me.
why? you already are a troll! countering the racist underdones with your own racists thoughts doesn't help. oh, and being a fake Rocket fan doesn't help either. Go be a Nets fan, you can cheer for Kenny Anderson, you don't deserve any of the 1994 Championship Rockets, not even Scotty Brooks. I don't care if you think all americans are white, don't **** WITH MAXWELL!
If you read between the lines of the progaganda release from the Chinese government, you should realize that they are already nervous about this anti-West mood that is spreading in China. Chinese people are not happy this year because of the economic situations (inflation, price rise, stock market crash) in China. There is a large amount of internal anger built-up in China. This anger is now being inflamed by a strong anti-West nationalism. As someone who's been through the movement of the late 1980's in China, I can tell you that the current situation is very similiar. The internal anger about economics being triggered by an external cause (international pro-democracy movement then; the anti-Chinese Olympics protest now) could spell catastrophe in China. The only difference is that back then the West was the friend in people's minds and now they may have become the enemy. It is by this reason that I find myself agreeable with the Chinese government (one of the very few things I agree with them) that this nationalist zeal should be contained right now. 1989 did not help China. If anything, it set back the political reforms for many years. The blood was shed in vain. I hope that the same tragedy does not happen again.
Yes, hyperbole, which is continued in your following post. You can use however many "question marks" you ("u" is pretty much what I'd expect from a teenager, btw) like, and get as emotional as you wish, but it doesn't make your posts any less a waste of my time, with all due respect. Carry on... you can waste someone elses time, instead. Impeach Bush. Make Him Clean Up His Own Mess.
You gotta love these freedom and peace loving Tibetans-in-exile. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7329040.stm Three dead in Indian 'Tibet' bomb A powerful explosion has ripped through a house in the Indian state of West Bengal, killing at least three people. A police chief said the dead have not yet been identified, but that they may be Tibetans. The owner of the house, in the town of Siliguri, said that it was rented by a Tibetan exile who said he was using it in connection with a computer business. But the police maintained that after the blast they recovered a large quantity of explosives and detonators. They say that timers were also discovered. Police said those killed were perhaps members of an underground group who had rented the house by providing false identities. The BBC's north-east India correspondent says that Siliguri - in the north of the state of West Bengal - has been used as a base or transit point for a number of rebel groups. Local Kamtapuri tribesmen who want a separate state in northern Bengal are believed to have a presence there, as do Nepalese and Indian Maoists. Tibetan exiles have a huge presence in the town and in the nearby hills of Darjeeling and Kalimpong.
yer as much a racist as i am. and as much a troll. if anything you started the trolling with borg nonsense, etc. i did like the way you snuck in a rick roll though and for that i will always love you.
I always give credit where credit is due. BBC is still a biased source, by and large, when it comes to China.
how am I racists? some people are borg, sometimes they snap out of it like when picard got saved. some people are klingons. sometimes people go romulan and less vulcan. the star trek analogies are genius. it makes people think, i'm trying to get people to stop thinking like borg and more like star fleet. that doesn't sound like racism. its more of freeing people's minds.
Behold, Cherrypickin' Sam at it again. Selectively chose a portion of the post and imply that it is the whole story. I'm not gonna lie about this Sammy. I love the term pathetic. I am all about efficiency. And I've came up with this world that summarizes all of your posts. It's great. But honestly though, when are you gonna answer my simple questions? It's been what, four years? That is, what's the word? Pathetic? I suggest an idiot like you to buy an argument. Hire apologists if you must. Your pathetic "Chinese censorship" one hasn't served you well as basically every Chinese poster took turns humiliating you.
No offense to anyone, but it's a funny post. Enjoy. http://thenewvoice.wordpress.com/20...undamentalists-over-the-tibet-issue/#comments An observation of debates with anti-China fundamentalists over the Tibet issue Since the Tibetan riot and massive media distortion began, I’ve been reading different posts, threads, essays and arguments over the Tibetan issue. When pro- and anti-China groups clash over the issue, it usually goes like this: Anti- China (A): Free Tibet! Pro-China (P): Tibet belongs to China, no need to free! A: China invaded Tibet! P: No invasion. Here is the proof… A1: fake! it’s all commie propaganda! A2: Invasion or not, Tibetan has the right the be free! You suppress… oppress…inhibit…Especially, you don’t have religious freedom. P: That’s not true. Here is the facts… A1: Liar! You people are brainwashed! A2: Still, you don’t have human rights there! People there are poor and having a miserable life! P: That’s not true either. Chinese Tibetans live happily there and we have very good policy and affirmative action for Chinese Tibetans, here are the evidences… A1: Propanganda! Liars! A2: Policy or not, there is cultural genocide in Tibet. P: There’s no cultural genocide in Tibet, here is the evidence… A1ropaganda! Paid CCP agent! A2: Still, too many Han ethnic people are there. Tibetans are soon to be assimilated. A3: No cultural genocide? They are now living in apartments instead of tent! They wear jeans instead of traditional robes! It’s not Tibetan cultural in the past! Isn’t that cultural genocide?! P: Not really, majority of the population is still Tibetan. Here is the proof…And yes, people wear jeans instead of robes, they also eat KFC and drink coca cola–but that kind of activities happens voluntarily. A1: Propaganda! Never believe anything commie says. A2: OK, riot or not, protesters may go a little bit far. But I think they meant good. DALAI is good. He has nothing to do with this. P: Dalai has everything to do with this. Here are some of the facts… A1: Propaganda! A2: There is no proof about him giving the order directly! He SAID he loves peace! You government is lying and doesn’t respect the Tibetan spiritual leader! P: He’s not the leader of all Tibetans, he’s just the leader of the Gelu sect. And there is more information about Dalai… He is not what he said he is. A1: Propaganda! A2: I really don’t believe these information. If you are telling the truth, how come the whole world is against you? Whatever you say, China has serious human rights problems. The whole world is pissed off. P1: We should focus on the issues in Tibet, not China in general. P2: We do have human rights problems, so does US. P3: It’s not the whole world against us. it’s the world you know against us. A1: So what? The American Natives are in the past! We now are one of the countries that best practice human rights! P: Remember IRAQ? Hypocrite! A2: So what? We can’t criticize you just because we claim war on IRAQ? You Chinese can criticize us too. A3: I am against US government too. But I have freedom of speech to against Bush and you don’t. P: It takes time to solve problem and make changes. China is making progress toward democracy. Here is some proof… A2: You are so brainwashed. You government is pure evil and you still think it can become good. A3: You government is evil, it…, it…, it…, it… So whatever happened in Tibet is not important, you should overthrow your government! A1: Commies sell junks to us! Take our jobs away! Own our debts! They are polluters! Free Tibet! Free China! Usually at this stage, pro-China people withdraw. Some anti-China people are convinced during the process. For those who can not be convinced even with mounted evidence, I call them anti-China fundamentalists. Because in the end, it’s NEVER about the benefit/human rights of Chinese, it’s simply hooraying everything against China, denouncing everything in China and ignoring voices from China. Amid all these debates, there is one question I always want to ask: Do you REALLY know or care what Chinese or Chinese Tibetans want when you shout ‘free Tibet’ or ‘free China’?
Another good comment that people from both sides would like to read. From http://www.jean-luc-melenchon.fr/?p=585 comment #2470 Dear Mr. Melenchon, First I would like to express my admiration of your integrity by expressing a different view of approaching China in the interview with TF2. You are really different from the usual politicians who normally cater to the majority views without thinking of the justifiability. Maybe some information about my background is necessary. I am a Chinese citizen born in a humble farmer family in the year of 1979, the year just after the adoption of Reform and Openness policy by Chinese government. I undertook the college education in China and PhD education in Singapore. And now I am a visiting scholar in a top US business school and about to join a university in Australia as a junior professor. I am quite representative of a generation of Chinese youths witnessing the dramatic changes in China in both economy and politics. Lots of westerners, including French people, worry about the autocracy and the lack of human rights in China and want to ‘Free China’. And as a person who experienced the regime and whose family (a humble and not privileged one) is still under that regime, I think that I have a better understanding of what average Chinese think of their situation and their future. China is in any way not as democratic and as free as all developed countries are. The citizens still don’t enjoy the rights to express our views completely freely and to elect the government. There is no single Chinese not valuing this kind of rights. And nor do we want to stay in this regime forever. But before criticizing China and imposing any good will on Chinese, it is really necessary to take some efforts to learn the history and the current status of China. China had been deprived of the right to develop for about 100 years before 1949 because of the invasion of then western and eastern emperors including France favoring colonization. As such, Chinese were really hatred of the lack of independence, social inequality and poverty. That was exactly the reason why China Communist Party could win the civil war and take over the regime though it started from almost nothing in 1920s. Socialist and the advocated social equality were so appealing and irresistible to the long-suffered Chinese people. However, the history demonstrated that communist, which is ignorant of the nature of individuals as human beings, is really a Utopia and doomed to fail. And especially, the institutional and political system in all communist countries, which was centralized and one-party autocratic, led to disastrous outcome for people in the communist regime such as what Chinese experienced in Great Leap in 1950s and Cultural Revolution in 1960s. Consequently, Chinese, including the Chinese communist government, started to seek change. The reform took place first in the economy system and then expanded gradually to the political system which is an important agenda of Chinese government now. As you and people over the world could see, Chinese economy has been improved dramatically during the past 30 years. The amazing economic development in China is one of the biggest contributions made by Chinese to the improvement of living status of the whole human beings. Just think of the more than quintupled improvement in living status for 1.3 billion people within 30 years. What accompanies the improvement in economic status is the increased demand of social and political rights by average Chinese citizens. Maybe China is still an autocratic country without sufficient human rights in the eyes of most citizens of western countries. But what I have seen so far is the significant improvement in personal freedom. We are enjoying the precedentless personal freedom in the history of China: we can criticize the government about the wrong-doings and we can express our concerns on the news media. The fact that Chinese government is not elected directly by all Chinese citizens (but it is still elected by the representatives of Chinese people though westerners may disagree about their representativeness.) does not necessarily mean that it does not act responsibly for Chinese people. Our concerns and opinions are having more and more significant impact on the government’s policies and decisions. Not to exaggerate, Chinese government is acting much more responsibly and democratically to Chinese people than some governments elected by their citizens in some poor countries which lack the conditions of realizing democracy such as educated and independently judging citizens. I won’t deny that all the above rights carrying a borderline – you cannot aim at overturning the current regime. It is really imperfect, but we don’t expect and intend to overturn it immediately overnight. China is still a developing country and relatively poor. We have many more concerns rather than only the political rights. The right of surviving and living better is the most important human right. Having the full democracy and enjoying the totally free political rights may be the benefit of overturning current regime, but the cost of overturning the current regime quickly is the chaos and the turmoil of the whole country. The process of economic development will be interrupted and it is the average Chinese citizens suffering most. That is the reason that we Chinese citizens are dissatisfied with the current regime but we object to any strategic plan designed by the western political leaders to impose the western freedom on China. We are on the right process and straddling ahead steadily. Any person without prejudice and bias can see the improvement in all fields in China including personal and civil freedom if he/she really wants to understand China. We hate the hypocritical propaganda to ‘Free China’ such as the way of US to free Iraq and Afghanistan which put the people there in a tragedy. We hate the way of CIA colluding with Dalai Lama and his followers to so-called ‘Free Tibet’ but essentially to separate China and restore the religiously leading regime in Tibet. And that is the reason why those exiled Chinese pro-democracy fighters, who were once regarded as heroes in China during 1989 pro-democracy protest in Beijing, are not discarded and disdained by the majority of Chinese people, because they ignore the real opinions of majority Chinese people and act as an instrument of those ill-intent anti-China organizations which fund their lives and activities. After expressing my perception of the status and the future of China and its people from the point of view of an average Chinese citizen, it is necessary to talk about the recent chaos around the Tibet riots and the 2008 Beijing Olympics. About the Tibet riots, if people don’t think Chinese government as devils and Chinese people as brain-washed idiots, they can see the truth easily because there are lots of evidences available in the internet now. If they want to leave behind the recent Tibet riots and care about the human right issues in Tibet, please read the history book and academic research about Tibet rather than only the ideologically biased media reports and the propaganda. They will find out that the truth is so differently than what they learnt from those major western media. I won’t deny that Chinese government did lots of wrong things in Tibet during the ideologically crazy periods such as Cultural Revolution and Tibetans suffered a lot from such wrong policies. But it was the case across the whole country then. And since 1980s, Chinese government has done lots of make-up to improve the life of Tibetans and to restore the culture and religion in Tibet. From whatever criteria, Tibetans are living a much better life and enjoying much more freedoms compared with they were under the regime of Dalai Lama. If they want to argue that there are still lots of human right issues in Tibet, I totally agree, just as I agree that there are lots of human right issues in other parts of China. But actually Tibetans enjoy lots of privileges which are unavailable to the majority ethnic Han people and even other ethnic minorities. One illusion about the recent Tibet riots is that Tibetans are unsatisfied with their status and stand out to protest. Please respect the truth. The violent protests and riots are led and participated by Lamas (monks) and very few mobs rather than the average Tibetans. Most Tibetans are satisfied with the improvement in their life brought by the abolishment of slavery system under Dalai Lama’s regime and the affirmative action policies endorsed by the central government to Tibetans. Some lamas (monks) are unsatisfied with the government because they would have more privileges under Dalai’s regime (actually they were slave maters before 1951) and their spiritual leader Dalai Lama (who actually is a super politician) is treated as an anti-China traitor by Chinese government. Except for worshipping Dalai Lama, they have the absolute freedom to pursue their religious beliefs. There are no other religious servants around the world who are so well treated and funded by the government as lamas in Tibet are. If some western people don’t believe this, please pay a visit to Tibet personally or watch the documentaries by the western tourists who visited Tibet and have no intention to purposely bias the audiences. And how to improve the human right in Tibet is the same issue as how to improve the human right in other parts of China. We have improved and are still on the right way of improving the human right for every Chinese across the whole country including Tibet. Here is an advice for some western people. Don’t try to impose their will and copy their model to other countries just because other countries look not that perfect as their own countries. That is another form of colonization. In terms of the domestic political system and institutions, US are viewed as the best among the world. Does it mean that every other country including France, UK, and Germany should discard their own systems and just copy the US one? Isn’t it ridiculous? Let me finally say something about the sino-French relationship among the recent chaos among Tibet riots and Olympics game. Chinese are peaceful and proud people and don’t like to be intervened by the super-powers. And one old Chinese proverb says that ‘Don’t impose what you dislike on others’. Thus we respect other countries’ independence and dignity. We view France and its people as one of our best friends in western world because you also have such a tradition. I still remember that France was one of the countries mostly actively objecting the invasion of Iraq by US. And the economic and cultural linkages between France and China have strengthened and are strengthening over time. However, this friendship is shaded by the recent ‘Free Tibet’ movement and the harsh comments about China by the politicians, leading by your president, Mr. Sarkozy. Especially, the violent protest and the humiliating action by the Paris municipality during the Olympic Torch relay in Paris strongly hurt the feeling and dignity of all Chinese people. The following comment by a French media that ‘the extinguishing of Olympics torch in Paris is a slash on China’s face’ is really shameless and irresponsible. I cannot imagine that a media in a democratic country can be such a rascal and devil. As a well-educated person, I understand that there are only very few French people intending to humiliate China and its people. And most French people just care about the human rights of Tibetan Chinese and other Chinese and want to exert the pressure on Chinese government to take actions. But as I pointed out previously, lots of French people know little about China. They have no idea of the history and the status of China. They just know that China is not as democratic as France and want China to be as democratic as French. But they are totally ignorant about the complex situation of China and they never think of what is the best way for us Chinese to achieve our own freedom and democracy. As I pointed out, it is very ironic that every country should follow the exact western system and become as democratic as the western world overnight. Looking at the humane tragedies and military turmoil around the world, almost in every case you can see the phantom of western powers imposing their own will and exerting their economic and military influences to mold those alien countries to fit the western system. As a person with deep understanding of the cultural differences between China and French, I can understand that the unfriendly actions and na?ve way of treating China and its people by the some French people are based on good will. But for the majority of Chinese, especially those strongly believe that French are Chinese’s trustful friends, as the Chinese media always try to convey, they feel hurt and humiliated. They cannot understand that why so many French people could be so ignorant but arrogant, why they tell Chinese to follow their wills but actually know almost nothing about us, and how they can be so natively biased by the propaganda of some media and politicians. So they express their anger on the internet, over the Carrefour, over LV. Maybe some French friends would say that it is due to the propaganda by the Chinese government. I have to say that it is really a stupid and soundless speculation. Not like lots of western media selectively seeking and reporting negative news about China, the Chinese media controlled by the government covey mostly positive news about the western world, and about the improvement in the economic and cultural linkage with the western countries. And even amid current outbreak of anger over French government by millions of Chinese people, Chinese government-controlled media try to persuade those angry people that the majority of French people are friendly to Chinese people, and there also millions of Chinese disagree with the view that we should condemn French people for the violent and humiliating actions in Paris. There are people going to Carrefour to protest the prejudice and bias against China, but there are also people going there to convey positive image of French and persuade protesting people to leave. You can see this is China: we have the right to protest; and we have different views among our people and have rights to express them. I really understand lots of Chinese people’s feeling of humiliation and anger toward lots of western people who blindly condemn China without knowledge about and respect toward China and its people. What make things worse are the further distortions by some western media about the anti-bias protests by oversee and domestic Chinese. These media are just reluctant to acknowledge their initial faults and bias. They view every Chinese supporting the government as brainwashed communist. I have to remind them that the majority of oversee Chinese participating in the anti-bias and pro-China protests are well-educated under the top western universities, with independent judgment, and very critical about the policies of Chinese government. And even more strikingly, among the participants of a series of recent protests you can find those who strongly disagree with Chinese government and participated in the 1989 pro-democracy protest in Beijing. So the further distortion and humiliation by some devil media, politicians and ignorant people will further invoke the anger of Chinese and deepen the misunderstandings between Chinese people and French people. About this summer’s Olympics game, lots of western people interpret it as Chinese government aiming to show off its economic achievements. It is at most superficial if not wrong totally. Most Chinese people support the hosting of 2008 Olympics because we want to communicate with the rest of the world, want others to understand what has been going on in China during the past 30 years, and want to tell the rest of the world that we are straddling on the right way to improve our country in every fields including political system. Isn’t 2008 Olympics Game a good chance to communicate with Chinese people and encourage China to further its reform and openness even if the westerns want to bring good changes to China? Invoking antagonism among Chinese people and the western people by blindly condemning and humiliating China and its people will only cut the communication between us and make Chinese disgusted of any propaganda of freedom, equality and democracy claimed by the western people. We will pursue our own real freedom, equality and democracy because we know that we care much much more about our own benefits and rights than westerns do. To be frank, I am really disappointed about the French politicians because some of them behave so irresponsibly and myopically, such as the mayor of Paris who posts the flag symbolizing the independence of Tibet and the tampered Olympics flag as five handcuffs on the municipal hall. Fortunately, I still see a politician of integrity as you being brave enough not to cater to and manipulate the bias and prejudice among some ignorant electorates. As I mentioned above, I strongly believe the passion for freedom, equality and democracy of the French people and I believe that it is this passion making them express their concerns about the imperfectness of China. However, I strongly hope that French people can express their good will appropriately and make more effort to understand the history and the status of our country and our people before they want to help us. Yours sincerely, Jianfeng Shen A oversee Chinese valuing the friendship between Chinese and French
When We were deemed the Sick Man of Asia, We were called The Peril. When We were billed to be the next superpower, We were called the threat. When We closed our doors, You smuggled drugs to open markets. When We embraced free trade, You blamed us for taking away your jobs. When We were falling apart, You marched in your troops and wanted your 'fair share'. When We were putting the broken pieces together again, 'Free Tibet' you screamed, 'it was an invasion!' So We tried Communism, You hated us for being 'Commies'. Then We tried Capitalism, and You hated us again for being rich Capitalists. When We have a billion people, You said we were destroying the planet. Then We tried limiting our numbers, You said it was human rights abuse. When We were poor, You thought we were dogs. When We loaned you cash, You blamed us for your debts. When We built our industries, You called us polluters. When we sold you goods, You blamed us for global warming. When We bought oil, You called it exploitation and Genocide. When You fight for oil, You called it Liberation. When We were lost in chaos and rampage, You wanted rules of law for us. When We upheld law and order against violence, You called that violating human rights. When We were silent, You said you wanted us to endorse free speech. When We were silent no more, You said we were brainwashed-xenophoics. Why do you hate us so much? We asked. 'No,' You Answered, 'We don't hate You.' We don't Hate You either, But do you understand us? 'Of course We do,' You replied, 'We have AFP, CNN and BBCs...' What do you really want from us? Think Hard first, then Answer... Because you only get so many chances, Enough is enough, Enough hypocrisy for this one world. We want One World, One Dream.
wow ~ an entire week to ruminate on your response, and this is all we get ~ wow P - A - T - H - E - T- I -C
this is a great SINO-WHINO song. Exactly what the BBS needed. Please regale us with more tales of a similar type. NOTHING is more important in all of history, past present or future, than avenging China's subjugation in the 19th century. NOTHING. I need to hear more!
Unfortunately, I am not gifted enough to write that poem. It was written by some chinese student. I thought it was quite moving, and wanted to share with this board. Now on to what you said. that was one line out of 40 lines, if you nitpick, you can probably find a few other errors. but I hope you understand the entire meaning. Thats the chinese mentality, a rather besieged mentality when the entire western civilisation is against china, its government and its people. If you can see it from our side, then maybe you can get a better picture to then make ur decision on who you support
It's okay for u to say that im wastin' ur time, and i will take it as a sign that u just use it to cover what i said was all true. Thanks in advance~
