It is possible to speak chinese and not be nazi-esque. There are many Chinese Walter Schindlers out there, like Hu Jia and Yang Chunlin - both brave enough to defy the authoritarian Party overlords.
aside from what's taught, what's not, What's the problem in teaching Mandarin in PUBLIC school? You need to know mandarin to be successful in China. Do the public school in the States not teaching English? Funny thing is, The public school in China teaches English as a requirement also. One would have to have satisfactory grades on English to further education. Now, go get pissed on THAT!
All Sam's mumbling could have been just summed up by "Sam thinks Tibet is a independent country, leave Tibet alone", and leave at that. That would have saved a lot of bandwidth.
Sam Fisher is not brave enough to go to China and demonstrate against the single-party rule there either. As a matter of fact, SamFisher is nazi-esque.
It doesn't matter.To SamFisher, the school officials are Nazi. The construction workers who built that pre-fab school building are Nazi. The school principle is Nazi. The teachers there are Nazi. The students there are Nazi. The janitors who clean the washrooms are Nazi. The old woman who sell candies in the cafeteria is a Nazi. Now let me find the Nazi gathering picture of SamFisher to make this post complete.
^ poor longhorn shampoo - he defends the colonial conauests and repressive actions of an authoritarian regime/one party dictatorship, and people make all sorts of CRAZY nazi-party parallels. My goodness....how could anybody ever make that link.
No, you can tell by the accent that these are Shanghainese speaking mandarin to each other. I'm totally ok with Shanghainese speaking mandarin to immigrants, but I would be some what sad if 3 generations from now that the dialect dies out. On the other hand, I am also slightly torn that the older generation, even those age 17+ are slightly more likely to speak Shanghainese in public, partially from what I'm seeing is that it's envogue and used to differentiate themselves from the immigrants. While I'd be happy if that preserve the dialect, I'd be sad since it's done due to a little xenophobism.
What are the colonial conquest and repressive action that you are talking about and what have I said about them? Quote what I said please. If you can't, please man up and admit that you have lied again. What about it? As for the Nazi reference, anyone with half a brain knows that I just tried to be as ridiculous as possible in order to show how low and ridiculous you were to link the demonstrators against the biased media to Nazi Germany. Are you just playing dumb?
I see that Sammy Fisher had effectively dodged the question again. Chinese posters have posted no less than several dozen third party sources, I'm still waiting for Sammy to post one. Specifically I'm waiting for three things: 1. Headcount that there are 3 million ethnic Hans in Tibet 2. Tibetan is not taught in schools in Tibet 3. Sautman claimed Tibetans are running prostitution joints The emperor DEMANDS accountability. Get to it.
I thought u said there are ZERO teachings of Tibetans in state run school and now u said the PRIMARY language of instruction is mandarin? So that means you do know they teach Tibetan as a second language right? Of course the PRIMARY language of instruction is Mandarin because the official language IS Mandarin. Should the public school in Texas teach the Hispanic students in Spanish? NO, if the Hispanic and the Tibetan students want to succeed in their countries they MUST learn the official language. that doesnt mean they cannot speak Spanish or Tibetan at home or to their friends. SamFisher please show me the law that bans the teaching of Tibetan.
The hits keep on comming for China in Tibet. On the charts this week, #8 with a bullet... source [rquoter] Police Fire on Tibetan Protesters; 8 Die By TINI TRAN – 2 hours ago BEIJING (AP) — Police fired on hundreds of protesters in a Tibetan area of western China, killing eight people, overseas activist groups said. State media reported one government official was seriously injured in what it called a riot. Two monks also committed suicide late last month because of government oppression, another Tibetan activist group said Saturday. The reports indicate that unrest is continuing in China's Tibetan areas despite a massive security presence in place since anti-government demonstrations in Tibet's capital, Lhasa, and neighboring provinces broke out in mid-March. The protests are the longest and most sustained challenge to China's 57-year rule in the Himalayan region. China's subsequent crackdown has drawn international scrutiny and criticism in the run-up to this summer's Olympic Games. Police fired on Buddhist monks and ordinary citizens who had marched on local government offices in Garze Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture in Sichuan province near Tibet on Thursday, according to the London-based Free Tibet Campaign and the International Campaign for Tibet. The protesters were demanding the release of two monks who were detained after 3,000 paramilitary troops searched their monastery and found photographs of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled Buddhist leader, the groups said. The U.S. government-funded Radio Free Asia said it had unconfirmed reports that up to 15 people were killed and dozens injured in the violence. Calls to local police and hospitals in the area were not answered Saturday or else officials said they had no information. The official Xinhua News Agency had no details on deaths or injuries but confirmed that a riot broke out near government offices in Donggu town in Garze. An official was "attacked and seriously wounded," and police were "forced to fire warning shots and put down the violence," Xinhua said. On Saturday, the Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy, based in India, said two monks committed suicide last month in Sichuan's Aba County following government oppression. Aba County has been the scene of large protests involving hundreds of monks and citizens. One monk, identified as Lobsang Jinpa, from the Aba Kirti Monastery killed himself March 27, leaving a signed note saying, "I do not want to live under Chinese oppression even for a minute," the human rights group said. The group said the second suicide occurred March 30 at the Aba Gomang Monastery, when a 75-year-old monk named Legtsok took his life, telling his followers he "can't beat the oppression anymore." It was impossible to verify the information since Chinese authorities have banned foreign reporters from traveling to the region. The Tibet Daily newspaper reported Saturday that the government planned to step up its "patriotic education" campaign, which requires monks to denounce their spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, and declare their loyalty to Beijing. "We should strengthen patriotic education so as to guide the masses of monks to continuously display the patriotic tradition and uphold the banner of patriotism," the paper quoted Hao Peng, Tibet's deputy Communist Party Chief, as saying. Thursday's violence in Sichuan province came when the government attempted to enforce "patriotic education" at the Garze monastery, according to the activist groups. The chief monk at the monastery had refused entry to a government team on Wednesday and the team returned the next day with the paramilitary troops, leading to the arrests and protests, according to the groups. Chinese authorities say 22 people died in anti-Beijing riots that broke out March 14. The Tibetan government-in-exile says up to 140 were killed in the protests and the ensuing crackdown. Beijing has accused Dalai Lama supporters of orchestrating the violence, a charge the spiritual leader has repeatedly denied. In India, police arrested 17 Tibetan exiles Saturday as they attempted to march from the remote Himalayan region of Ladakh in northern India into Tibet, according to local official M.K. Bhandari. Ladakh is home to about 7,000 Tibetan exiles. The exiles have been arrested for violating the law that prohibits entry into sensitive border areas. Also Saturday, France's human rights minister denied a report that quoted her as saying President Nicolas Sarkozy could boycott the Olympic opening ceremony unless China releases political prisoners and opens a dialogue with the Dalai Lama. In a statement, Rama Yade said Le Monde newspaper had misquoted her in Saturday editions when it said she listed necessary "conditions" for Sarkozy's attendance at the Aug. 8 ceremony. "The word 'conditions' was never used," Yade said in a terse statement. Sarkozy spokesman Frank Louvrier declined to comment on Yade's interview. Sarkozy has previously said he could "not close the door to any possibility" when asked whether he supported a boycott of the ceremony. [/rquoter]
I am so very glad that we take the words of Tibetan exiles so literally, the same group that claimed the PAP framed Tibetan rioters by dressing up as Tibetan monks to torch buildings. http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/tibet.miles.interview/ BEIJING, China (CNN) -- James Miles, of The Economist, has just returned from Lhasa, Tibet. The following is a transcript of an interview he gave to CNN. art.miles.jpg James Miles Q. How easy was it for you to see what you wanted to see? A. Well remarkably so, given that the authorities are normally extremely sensitive about the presence of foreign journalists when this kind of incident occurs. I was expecting all along that they were going to call me up and tell me to leave Lhasa immediately. I think what restrained them from doing that, one very important factor in this, was the thoughts of the Olympic Games that are going to be staged in Beijing in August. And they have been going out of their way to convince the rest of the world that China is opening up in advance of this. I think they probably didn't want me there but they knew that I was there with official permission, and one thing they've been trying to get across over the last few months is that journalists based in Beijing can now get around the country more freely than they could before. Of course Tibet is a special example. I've been a journalist in China now for 15 years altogether. This is the first time that I've ever got official approval to go to Tibet. And it's remarkable I think that they decided to let me stay there and probably they felt that it was a bit of a gamble. But as the protests went on I think they also probably felt that having me there would help to get across the scale of the ethnically-targeted violence that the Chinese themselves have also been trying to highlight. Q. What you say you saw corroborates the official version. What exactly did you see? Don't Miss * Tourist video shows riot, flames in Tibetan capital * Timeline: Tibetan protests * In The Field: Turmoil in Tibet * iReport: Share your news and images A. What I saw was calculated targeted violence against an ethnic group, or I should say two ethnic groups, primarily ethnic Han Chinese living in Lhasa, but also members of the Muslim Hui minority in Lhasa. And the Huis in Lhasa control much of the meat industry in the city. Those two groups were singled out by ethnic Tibetans. They marked those businesses that they knew to be Tibetan owned with white traditional scarves. Those businesses were left intact. Almost every single other across a wide swathe of the city, not only in the old Tibetan quarter, but also beyond it in areas dominated by the ethnic Han Chinese. Almost every other business was either burned, looted, destroyed, smashed into, the property therein hauled out into the streets, piled up, burned. It was an extraordinary outpouring of ethnic violence of a most unpleasant nature to watch, which surprised some Tibetans watching it. So they themselves were taken aback at the extent of what they saw. And it was not just targeted against property either. Of course many ethnic Han Chinese and Huis fled as soon as this broke out. But those who were caught in the early stages of it were themselves targeted. Stones thrown at them. At one point, I saw them throwing stones at a boy of maybe around 10 years old perhaps cycling along the street. I in fact walked out in front of them and said stop. It was a remarkable explosion of simmering ethnic grievances in the city. Q. Did you see other weapons? A. I saw them carrying traditional Tibetan swords, I didn't actually see them getting them out and intimidating people with them. But clearly the purpose of carrying them was to scare people. And speaking later to ethnic Han Chinese, that was one point that they frequently drew attention to. That these people were armed and very intimidating. Q. There was an official response to this. In some reporting, info coming from Tibetan exiles, there was keenness to report it as Tiananmen. A. Well the Chinese response to this was very interesting. Because you would expect at the first sings of any unrest in Lhasa, which is a city on a knife-edge at the best of times. That the response would be immediate and decisive. That they would cordon off whatever section of the city involved, that they would grab the people involved in the unrest. In fact what we saw, and I was watching it at the earliest stages, was complete inaction on the part of the authorities. It seemed as if they were paralyzed by indecision over how to handle this. The rioting rapidly spread from Beijing Road, this main central thoroughfare of Lhasa, into the narrow alleyways of the old Tibetan quarter. But I didn't see any attempt in those early hours by the authorities to intervene. And I suspect again the Olympics were a factor there. That they were very worried that if they did move in decisively at that early stage of the unrest that bloodshed would ensue in their efforts to control it. And what they did instead was let the rioting run its course and it didn't really finish as far as I saw until the middle of the day on the following day on the Saturday, March the 15th. So in effect what they did was sacrifice the livelihoods of many, many ethnic Han Chinese in the city for the sake of letting the rioters vent their anger. And then being able to move in gradually with troops with rifles that they occasionally let off with single shots, apparently warning shots, in order to scare everybody back into their homes and put an end to this. Q. Would be false to suggest there was heavy-handed security approach? A. Well this was covering a vast area of the city and I was the only foreign journalist, at least accredited, to ... who was there to witness this. It was impossible to get a total picture. I did hear persistent rumors while I was there during this rioting of isolated clashes between the security forces and rioters. And rumors of occasional bloodshed involved in that. But I can do no more really on the basis of what I saw then say there was a probability that some ethnic Chinese were killed in this violence, and also a probability that some Tibetans, Tibetan rioters themselves were killed by members of the security forces. But it's impossible to get the kind of numbers or real first hand evidences necessary to back that up. Q. Form any sense of where it would go from here? A. Well I think they now have a huge problem on their hands. When I left Lhasa yesterday the city was still in a state of effectively Martial Law. They've been bending over backwards this time not to declare martial law as they did in 1989 after the last major outbreak of anti-Chinese unrest in Lhasa. This time they have not used that term and yet the conditions now in Lhasa are pretty much the same as they were in 1989 under martial law. Officials say there are no soldiers, no members of the People's Liberation Army involved in this security operation. And yet I saw numerous, many military vehicles, military looking vehicles with telltale license plates covered up or removed. And also many troops there whose uniforms were distinctly lacking in the usual insignia of either the police or the riot police. So my very, very strong suspicion is that the army is out there and is in control in Lhasa. And removing that security given the way Tibetans are now focusing on the Olympics as a window of opportunity, removing that security now I think would be something they would be very, very cautious about. And yet there are enormous pressures on them to do so. Coming up to the Olympic torch carrying ceremony in Lhasa in June. That is one obvious event they will want the world to see and they will want the world to see that Lhasa is normal. But I think getting to that stage will be enormously tricky given the depth of feeling in Lhasa itself among Tibetans. Q. Did you actually see clashes between security forces and Tibetan protesters? A. Well what I saw and at this stage, the situation around my hotel which was right in the middle of the old Tibetan quarter, was very tense indeed and quite dangerous so it was difficult for me to freely walk around the streets. But what I saw was small groups of Tibetans, and this was on the second day of the protests, throwing stones towards what I assumed to be, and they were slightly out of vision, members of the security forces. I would hear and indeed smell occasional volleys of Tear gas fired back. There clearly was a small scale clash going on between Tibetans and the security forces. But on the second day things had calmed down generally compared with the huge rioting that was going on...on the Friday. And the authorities were responding to these occasional clashes with Tibetans not by moving forward rapidly with either riot police and truncheons and shields, or indeed troops with rifles. But for a long time, just with occasional, with the very occasional round of tear gas, which would send and I could see this, people scattering back into these very, very, narrow and winding alleyways. What I did not hear was repeated bursts of machine gun fire, I didn't have that same sense of an all out onslaught of massive firepower that I sensed here in Beijing when I was covering the crushing of the Tiananmen Square protests in June, 1989. This was a very different kind of operation, a more calculated one, and I think the effort of the authorities this time was to let people let off steam before establishing a very strong presence with troops, with guns, every few yards, all across the Tibetan quarter. It was only when they felt safe I think that there would not be massive bloodshed, that they actually moved in with that decisive force. Q. At time you left, were Han Chinese moving freely back? A. There were some on the Saturday morning. On the second day we came back to the shops and I saw them picking through the wreckage, tears in their eyes. They were astonished, as I was, at the lack of any security presence on the previous day. It was only during the night at the end of the first day that this cordon was established around the old Tibetan quarter. But even within it, for several hours afterwards, people were still free to continue looting and setting fires, and the authorities were still standing back. And it was only as things fizzled out towards the middle of the second day that as I say they moved in in great numbers. Ethnic Chinese in Lhasa are now very worried people. Some who had been there for many, many years expressed to me their utter astonishment that this had happened. They had no sense of great ethnic tension being a part of life in Lhasa. Now numerous Hans that I spoke to say that they are so afraid they may leave the city, which may have very damaging consequences for Lhasa's economy, Tibet's economy. Of course one would expect that ethnic Chinese would think twice now about coming into Lhasa for tourism, and that's been a huge part of their economic growth recently. And leaving Lhasa, I was sitting on a plane next to some Chinese businessmen, they say that they would normally come in and out of Lhasa by train. But their fear now is that Tibetans will blow up the railway line. That it is now actually safer to fly out of Tibet than to go by railway. We have no evidence of Terrorist activity by Tibetans, no accusation of that nature so far. But that is a fear that's haunting some ethnic Han Chinese now. Q. When you were told to leave, what were you told? A. Well I had an 8-day permit to be in Lhasa. That permit began two days before the rioting, on March 12, and was due to run out on March 19. My official schedule was basically abandoned after a couple days of this. Many of the places on my official itinerary turned out to be hotspots in the middle of this unrest. They left me to my own devices. I was stopped by the police at one point, taken to a police station. They made a few phone calls and then let me go back out on the streets full of troops and police carrying out the security crackdown. They insisted however that when my permit did expire on the 19th that I had to leave. I asked for an extension and they said decisively no. Q. So you weren't expelled? It just ran out? A. Well we're in a gray area here. Because in theory China has been opened up to foreign journalists since January 2007, which means no longer, which was the case before, do we have to apply for provincial level government approval every time we leave Beijing for reporting. The official regulations don't mention Tibet. But orally, officials have made it clear that Tibet is an exception to these new Olympic rules and journalists who have made their own way there, unofficially, both before this unrest and during it have been caught or ... and expelled. Or those who have succeeded in making it out without being detected have been criticized by the authorities for doing so. So one could argue that yes I was expelled, if one looks at the regulations they've announced which one could interpret as meaning we have the freedom to be where we like. But in their interpretation, Tibet is an exception and in their view they were being rather liberal towards me by letting run to the end of my official permit. advertisement Q. Is Dalai behind this? A. Well we didn't see any evidence of any organized activity, at least there was nothing in what I sensed and saw during those couple of days of unrest in Lhasa, there was anything organized behind it. And I've seen organized unrest in China. The Tiananmen Square protests in 1989 involved numerous organizations spontaneously formed by people in Beijing to oppose, or to call for more reform and demand democracy. We didn't see that in Lhasa. There were no organizations there that ... certainly none that labeled themselves as such. These accusations against what they call the Dalai Lama clique, are ritual parts of the political rhetoric in Tibet. There is a constant background rhetoric directed at the Dalai Lama and his supporters in India. So it is not at all surprising that they would repeat that particular accusation in this case. But they haven't come across, haven't produced any evidence of this whatsoever. And I think it's more likely that what we saw was yes inspired by a general desire of Tibetans both inside Tibet and among the Dalai Lama's followers, to take advantage of this Olympic year. But also inspired simply by all these festering grievances on the ground in Lhasa.
Well, given that they have a much better record of truthfulness than the official party mouthpiece of the CPC, I think it is prudent to trust their account over that of the pathologically deceptive and untruthful party propaganda apparatus. BTW, Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy never made such claims, but I guess all Tibetans look alike to you, right?
This hypothetical discussion of Rule of Law as an operative concept in a corrupt, one party authoritarian autocracy like the PRC is a new twist. I invite all of you chinese to participate - therefore you can prove to the naysayers like MFW and wnes that chinese are in fact capable of comprehending democratic concepts and are not a motley band of riff-raff unfit to rule themselves.
I had a good laugh when I heard some Tibetan exile government official said, and I paraphrase : Dalai lama is not for violence. We Tibetans are not violent. We just beat them. They (han Chinese) failed to escape and died, or they failed to escape when we set the building on fire. We were not killing them. LMAO I would like him really to apply such logic to any claim of police action and see where he gets. The clip is somewhere on the net if you are interested. It's in an interview by French radio station, conducted in Mandarin (surprise, surprise).
That must be the joke of the century. Various Tibetans exile groups have yet to prove their "1.2 million Tibetans killed by Chinese army" claims, initiated by one group, cited by all others. And speaking of official party mouthpieces, how ironic that even your own article states that Radio Free Asia, your source to the whole "shooting death" is funded by the US government. More precisely, it is funded by the CIA. Hell, even idiots like Ron Paul called for the US to stop funding such groups to subvert foreign governments. That's one helluva source. Sammy, your rapidly declining brain cell count and schizophrenia is reaching dangerous stages. Rule of Law far preceded democracy, nor was it complete after. Making your comments farcical, to say the least. I invite your brain to join the discussion, having skipped the fun thus far. I also welcome your sources to your claims (and my questions), which you have yet dodged again. Let me repeat them, proof that: 1. Headcount that there are 3 million ethnic Hans in Tibet 2. Tibetan is not taught in schools in Tibet 3. Sautman claimed Tibetans are running prostitution joints I wouldn't be surprised though that your source is your ass, I mean mouth, I mean ass. In your case I have problems keeping track which is which.
Here's an interesting piece on the murder of the Tibetan language by the Linguicidal Mandarins. Forked Tongue: Tibetan Language Under Assault This pretty much confirms my own findings - gathered straight from the source itself. As I have been a practicing attorney, in a country of laws and not men (for the most part) - it is pretty easy for me to tell when people are telling the truth, language is no barrier there.
