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2 Dead as Protests Break out in Tibet

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Mar 14, 2008.

  1. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    I believe that is also the position he holds.
     
  2. ymc

    ymc Member

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    Interesting take on the Tibet issue. Not sure if the real situation is this complicated or not.

    http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=2384413bc4f60e6614d134038737f3aa


    Endgame for the Dalai Lama: Black Hats Sect Dismantling Power Base

    New America Media, News analysis, Yoichi Shimatsu, Posted: Mar 21, 2008

    Editor’s note: The façade of Tibetan unity has unraveled and along with it, the Dalai Lama’s power base. Yoichi Shimatsu, former editor of the Japan Times Weekly in Tokyo, was executive producer of the video documentary “Flight of a Karmapa” (Nachtvision 2002) taped in the Tsurphu area of Tibet, the Mustang region of Nepal, Sikkim and Dharamsala.


    Hezuo, Gansu Province – For decades, the Beijing government had recognized the Dalai Lama as its sole negotiating partner in Tibetan affairs. For the officialdom, it was simpler to deal with a single person -- the “pontiff” of Tibetan Buddhism – to control the entire ethnic population. The façade of Tibetan unity was convenient to both sides but now it has unraveled, and it’s the endgame for the Dalai Lama.

    By ordering the monks of his Gelugpa or Yellow Hat sect to hold peaceful rallies on the 49th anniversary of the Chinese invasion, the Dalai Lama -- unwittingly -- ignited pent-up emotions among Lhasa residents. Scenes like the head bashing, stoning and kicking of a prostrate bicycle owner arose from popular grievances against runaway price inflation and perceived discrimination against Tibetans in their own land. Such cruelty, regardless of past injustices, has nothing to do with Buddhist teachings but arises from the human condition.

    Unfortunately for the Dalai Lama, the loyalists in his once-powerful organization inside Tibet are being selectively investigated, arrested and detained for causing the violence. The Beijing government has repeatedly stated that only a small minority of Tibetans loyal to the Dalai Lama were involved in the protests. Whatever its legal flaws, there’s more than a grain of truth in the official assertion.

    Amid the mayhem and anarchy, a decisive factor in the Tibetan equation has gone practically unnoticed: Key major players did not join or support the protests:

    -- The Panchen Lama, a top prelate of the Gelugpa or Yellow Hat school, second in rank only to the Dalai Lama himself, has spoken in no uncertain terms against the rioting and instead backed the government.

    -- Leaders of the Nyingma and Sakya schools, as well as the native Bon religion, did not endorse the protests and are tight-lipped about the wave of arrests.

    -- Laymen with the re-ascendant Kagyupa or Black Hat school, are furious with the Dalai Lama after being targeted by Gelugpa supporters during the horsemen’s raid on the Hezuo local district office in south Gansu and in several counties in Sichuan Province.

    In this negative light, the rallies by the Gelugpa monks seemed a desperate bid to reassert the Dalai Lama’s authority by accusing their Tibetan rivals of being “collaborators” and presenting themselves as the “resistance.” Due to the unintended violence, however, the Yellow Hats find themselves as the odd man out. Following the crackdown, rival sects are moving to dismantle the remnants of the Gelugpa organization, which had the monopoly of power over the Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR) and other districts as recently as five years ago.

    If the façade of Tibetan unity was convenient, it now no longer serves.

    In January 2000, the Chinese view of the Dalai Lama started to undergo a radical change during the affair known as the “Flight of the Karmapa” - covered in a documentary by Nachtvision. The Karmapa is the head lama of the Kagyupa, or Black Hat school, which ruled Tibet until the reign of the 5th Dalai Lama began in 1642.

    At the turn of the millennium, the teenage Karmapa, born Ogyen Trinley Dorje, began a secret journey from his seat in Tsurphu monastery, west of Lhasa, to Sikkim in north India to recover the mystic Black Crown of the Kagyupa. In the bid to strengthen his nomination against other contenders, the Karmapa rode horseback on a tortuous path through the frozen wilderness of Nepal’s Mustang region. At the 4,500-meters altitude Thorong-La Pass, he was separated from his Nepalese Kagyupa guide and whisked aboard a mountain-rescue helicopter. He soon turned up under virtual house arrest near the Dalai Lama’s headquarters in Dharamsala, India.

    As told by his guide, the Venerable Gyaltsen Rimpoche, nicknamed the “Tall Manangi,” the Ogyen Trinley had to retrieve the charismatic crown because “in Lhasa the Karmapa was rising and becoming more popular, so the Gelugpa did not like it and the situation was becoming dangerous for him.” Only the magic talisman could turn the tables on the powerful Yellow Hats.

    In the eyes of many Kagyupa monks, the Karmapa has been abducted by the Dalai Lama’s exile government and remains a hostage to the senior leader of a rival sect. The Black Hats responded furiously with demands to Beijing that Gelugpa monks should be stripped of their control over the Tibet province budget and other privileges.

    Feeling sorely betrayed by the Dalai Lama, who had earlier backed the appointment of Orgyen Trinley as Karmapa, Beijing consented to the Black Hat’s harsh demands. Thus ended the Yellow Hats’ monopoly on power inside Tibet. Since then, the local governments of many Tibetan zones have been taken over by laymen loyal to the Black Hats. Hezuo, the scene of the horsemen’s well-publicized raid, is the site of the Kagyupa’s Milarepa Shrine. Horses were used in the attack because the raiders came from the Xiahe district, the stronghold of the rival Gelugpa’s Labrang Monastery.

    This realignment of sectarian power in Tibet, which can be compared with the Protestant Reformation in Europe, is only now coming to light in public discourse after the Lhasa riots. A People’s Daily editorial, titled “No return to old Tibet” (March 18), stated: “the political exile (Dalai Lama) has continued his rule with an iron fist that smashes any challenge to his power from anyone or any sect. . . . Local Tibetans have managed their affairs well without his interference.”

    In private, many exiles across the Himalayas, including former Khampa guerrillas who fought the Chinese army in the 1960s, recount disturbing allegations of the Dalai Lama’s security team's involvement in the murdering of his critics by poisoning and bombing. This dark side of intra-Tibetan intrigue is yet to be factually uncovered before world opinion.

    In an ultimate irony, the only person who can prevent the coming demolition and disgrace of the Gelugpa school is Gyeltshen Norbu, the Beijing-appointed Panchen Lama.

    The Panchen Lama probably won’t rush to their defense, not after pro-Dharamsala lamas lobbied furiously against Beijing’s attempt to appoint the young lama as a delegate to the National People’s Congress, held in early March, arguing that he was not yet 18 years of age. To avoid controversy, Beijing reluctantly conceded, even though the official birth date of Gyeltshen Norbu was February 13, 1990, making him 18 and eligible.

    The Panchen Lama is likely to receive Buddhist VIPs at the Beijing Olympics. An audience and blessing from the bright young monk will certainly win international support for his confirmation of the next reincarnation of the Dalai Lama. It is the traditional custom for the Panchen Lama to confirm the reincarnated Dalai Lama and vice versa. By contrast, high-ranking monks have scoffed at the Dalai Lama’s idea of forming a committee to elect a successor.

    The recent uprising in Lhasa, despite its grim pathos, is a reminder of the tragic 1959 insurrection that resulted in the deaths of thousands of Tibetans. In both cases, the 14th Dalai Lama badly miscalculated the divisions among his own people, Beijing’s strategic determination, and the moral hypocrisy of the international community.

    In the Buddhist view, all things come full circle. In the 17th century, the 5th Dalai Lama called in a Mongol general to overthrow the Karmapa’s theocracy. Today, the Karmapa’s men are ousting the Gelugpa power structure. Ceaseless change is unstoppable, taught Sakyamuni Buddha. Thus, attachment only results in suffering – our attachment to wealth, power, pride, respect and, most of all, to love, the meanest vice yet highest virtue of human existence. Not even his bitter opponents can dispute the deep love of His Holiness the Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso for his homeland, Tibet. How difficult it must be now, to let go.
     
  3. nokidding

    nokidding Member

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    If you have been in Tibet or its surrounding provinces, you would have realized that Tibetans are not hard workers. Chinese government gives them very high priority and they don't want to take advantage of it. They don't want to go to school. They prefer to earn as much money as possible before the age of 30 and then they would like to spend the rest of their life travelling around different temples in China to do nothing else but pray.
     
  4. nokidding

    nokidding Member

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    I think your questions are very reasonable. Considering the degree of coruption in China, I am not surprised if these big goverment heads (Tibetan or Han) benifits the most. Well, that is happenning in everywhere of china. That is why Tibet is not the only place in CHina where protest happens. but CNN doesn't care about that.
     
  5. yuantian

    yuantian Member

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    criminals list
    these are the top criminals in this riot. weird thing is, the guy in the 4th picture. the one with the silver colored coat. ya, i have been wearing the exact coat. how the hell did he get that? it was like over $100 dollars when i bought it a few years back. let me assure you, it's not me. :D
     
  6. MFW

    MFW Member

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    Of course that's his position now. He is in a position in which he has no bargaining chip. The CCP holds all the cards. If this continues Dalai risks dying outside of Tibet, aside from total irrelevance.

    They've already done that. And now that they hold all the cards (along with Dalai's flip-flopping ways), I'm sure they see no need to further negotiate.

    In case you didn't notice, he's running a theocracy right now. But you can take whatever he says at face value if you so desire.

    Consider open attacks on governmental facilities in as recent as the 50's by its predecessors, ETIM's influence has already been curbed significantly.
     
  7. richirich

    richirich Member

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    You keep all of those Indian soldiers from climbing over Mt Everest and invading..... :D
     
  8. newplayer

    newplayer Member

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    don't be such a drama queen.
     
  9. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    I'm laughing at you. That's comedy not drama.
     
  10. newplayer

    newplayer Member

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    You've got a weird sense of humor, like how you suggest genocide to solve problems between countries.
     
  11. Bank_Shot

    Bank_Shot Member

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    From what I read on Chinese BBS and forums, there is a strong sentiment of ethnic hatred among ethnic Hans toward ethnic Tibetians. There is also strong hatred toward the West as many people see the West as the backers of Dalai Lama and the Tibetian independent movement. The feeling is that the West is trying to sabotage China in the Olympic year by playing up the Tibetian crackdown and the West's ultimate goal is to curb China's development and prevent it from becoming a great nation. This feeling is especially strong among young Chinese, evident by the posts on many universitys' BBS's.

    I was in university in China when the Tibetian protests of 1987 happend and when the Beijing student demonstration/protests happened in 1989. There was a very different feeling back then. Most ordinary Chinese people, especially the young people, did not agree with the goverment's actions back then. I remember talking to many young people who supported the Tibetians' causes. That feeling seems to have vanished today and replaced by a strong and even dangerous nationalist zeal.

    I think at some point the West needs to re-examine its China policy. What has happend in the last 20 years that have dramatically shifted the public opinions among the Chinese toward the West?
     
  12. yeo

    yeo Member

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    Wow, excellent read. I have always known that the Dalai Lama's claim to be the sole spritual and political leader of Tibet is just a sham, but never had such detailed information. Thanks!

    I have noticed that the city of Shigatse (the second largest city in Tibet and the headquarters of the Panchen Lama) is totally peaceful and unaffected during the latest riots. And the monks of Tashi Lunpo monastery (Panchen's boys) are also uninvolved. Maybe China should move the capital of Tibet to Shigatse instead, hehe.

    Dalai has sure pissed off a lot of people this time. The Muslims are furious too. Lhasa's Muslims were actually planning reprisal attacks on the Tibetans and wanted to burn down the Jokhang Temple, and the police had to move in quickly to nip it in the bud. I wonder what Al Quaeda thinks of him. Hmmmm.

    Dalai mis-calculated badly this time. China will simply wait for him to die. He may not even be able to die peacefully. He has already survived several assasination attempts by rival sects. And the radical Tibetan Youth Congress may get fed up with him and decide to get rid fo him too. Poor guy, I'm actually feeling a little sorry for him.
     
  13. yeo

    yeo Member

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    Just wanted to point out that you make an excellent point. As some more astute western observers have pointed out, the latest riots are much more about economics than about religion or Dalai. The ones rioting were the under-privileged ones, and the Tibetans voicing support for the government appear to be the upper and middle classes.

    I believe the government do offer a lot of affirmative action programs to Tibetans, so much so that there have already been complaints from Han Chinese that the government is "coddling" the Tibetans. But I also believe the Han and Hui migrants into Tibet do receive a disproportionate amount of the economic benefits. One reason is simply that the Tibetans are less entrepreneurial, especially compared to these fearless Han and Hui pioneers, who have left behind everything to go to a forbidding place in search of fortune.

    A second reason is the problem of language. The Tibetans must be fluent in Mandarin (and preferably English as well) in order to compete in today's world. I think one serious mistake that the government has made in recent years was that they have bowed to international pressure over the so-called preservation of Tibetan culture and scaled back Mandarin education in Tibet and promoted more Tibetan schools. The graduates of these schools have no hope of competing with Hans or even other Tibetan who do speak Mandarin.

    So I think the governmet should continue with the economic development policies in Tibet, but pay even more attention to spreading the benefits around. And please don't listen to those brainless farts who want to "preserve" Tibet as a quaint little theme park for their own viewing pleasure.

    Sorry I don't have the hard numbers you demanded and can only "editorialize", hehe.
     
  14. yeo

    yeo Member

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    Hmm, are you sure it's not you? Did you know that "number 4" happens to be the only one on the list who has turned himself in so far? Coincidence? I don't think so. Ladies and gentleman, I think we have caught a government agent provocateur! :D
     
  15. yeo

    yeo Member

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    This is off topic, but it looks like the Taiwanese voters are not as stupid as the New York Times thought they would be. The pro-unification Taiwan opposition party triumphs in today's presidential election with a land-slide win!
     
  16. yeo

    yeo Member

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  17. yeo

    yeo Member

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    I will tell you what happened. China is more open to the West now and a lot of Chinese have come to the West in the last 20 years, and they have frankly been disillusioned by what they saw. They were fed up with the CCP's lies back home, but then they came to the West and realized that the CCP weren't the only liars. :D The rapid economic development of the last 20 years and growing self-confidence also have something to do with it.
     
  18. foofy

    foofy Rookie

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  19. yeo

    yeo Member

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    Just to illustrate my point, here is a letter-to-the-editor, apparently written by a well-educated young Chinese working in the West, in response to a Bloomberg article. I think he summarizes and represents the views and feelings of today's young Chinese fairly well.

     
  20. yuantian

    yuantian Member

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    oh really? :D
     

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