Some eye-witnesses from western tourists http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0314/p99s07-woap.html?page=1 The full story here for your viewing pleasure. Tibet unrest deepens, with violence and rioting Tibetans threw stones at Chinese troops and set fire to buildings Friday. By Christopher Johnson TOKYO Some 1,500 Tibetans engaged in street fighting with several hundred armed police as unrest intensified in the Tibetan capital of Lhasa, according to a group of foreign backpackers who witnessed rioting Friday in which protesters targeted Han Chinese and Muslims known as Hui. "An empty PLA [People's Liberation Army] convoy pulled through" Beijing Street, the main thoroughfare just north of Barkhor Square in central Lhasa, said Ken on his "kadfly" blog. He, along with others in his group who asked to be identified only by their first name, sent out reports on e-mail and by phone throughout the day. "Maybe 100 meters farther, there was a massive crowd of Tibetans surrounding a narrow alleyway. As it turned out, they were throwing stones and hurling abuse at PLA soldiers who were blockading the passage to a monastery. After a minute or two, everyone rushed the PLA blockade and burst through. The soldiers left parts of their riot gear lying around and Tibetans started breaking them." The unrest this week was triggered Monday by the arrest of monks who had marched from Drepung monastery in western Lhasa toward the Potala Palace, home of the exiled Dalai Llama, to commemorate the 49th anniversary of a failed uprising against Chinese rule. By Tuesday, ordinary Tibetans had joined a street protest outside Sera monastery, demanding that the monks be released. Thursday, reports from Lhasa said Chinese troops were surrounding major monasteries, forcing the monks inside, and by Friday, the protests turned violent. China, which has long claimed sovereignty over the Tibet autonomous region, blamed the Dalai Llama for "masterminding" the unrest. A spokesman for the spiritual leader responded that the charge was "absolutely baseless." The Dalai Llama appealed to Chinese officials to stop using force and asked Tibetans to avoid violence. The United States issued a statement Friday asking China to "respect" Tibetan culture and said that "[we] regret the tensions between the ethnic groups and Beijing." In Lhasa, the group of backpackers said that the atmosphere Friday morning had been upbeat, but that the mood had turned ugly by the afternoon. "The crowds support the protesters by howling like wolves," said Paul by phone. "Everyone is on the streets. They want the arrested monks to be released. People are very afraid of Chinese undercover police. People are tired of being followed and observed by police. Even tourists. The massive observation of police, and the show of force over the last several days, didn't seem to work out." Pelted with stones, the police retreated, he said. Rioters then went on a rampage, setting fire to several buildings. "They were civilians, not monks," said Paul. Black smoke rose over Lhasa. Rioters smashed windows along Beijing Street at restaurants and shops – including ones that are popular with Tibetans and foreigners who sympathize with their plight. They overturned cars on the street, and in front of Jokhand temple, a 1,400-year old World Heritage Site popular with Tibetan pilgrims. "There are no police or officials to be seen in the streets anymore," said Paul. "Several Chinese-looking persons were beaten very badly, and exposed to heavy stone-throwing." Ken, an ethnic Chinese raised in the West, ran to help a beaten Chinese man bleeding in the street. "When the Tibetans saw my Chinese face, they raised stones to throw at me. Then when I told them where I was from, they smiled and said 'You're OK'." Paul said he intervened to stop Tibetans from beating up innocent Chinese. "It's anarchy everywhere outside. Police cars smashed. No police in central Lhasa. I met a tourist guy with a camera, he took pictures and film. I gotta go. I have to get inside now. They expect the army to move in soon." Ken later wrote on his blog: "We also saw a monk (or at least someone dressed like one) direct an attack on a store or restaurant with a small Chinese flag flying from it." Reaching a hotel after witnessing these attacks, they were moved out of rooms facing the street to safer quarters at the back. They went on the roof to see fires and plumes of smoke around Lhasa, normally known as the sunniest city in China. Hotel staff later closed off the roof, and stopped taking calls from overseas. "We are locked off in the hotel," said Paul via cellphone. "There are rumors that 13 arrested monks have been killed." He stayed inside his hotel Friday night with the group, but reported that he heard gunfire and explosions into Saturday morning. With nowhere to go, Ken tried to upload photos on his blog. "A Chinese guy came into the Internet cafe at the hotel. He wasn't in uniform, but it was clear that he was an undercover police agent. He turned off the computers and gave me a real dirty look, like he knew what we were doing." Paul went into the reception at the front of the hotel to get a look out the window at the street. "The riot is still going on out there. It's getting worse and worse. According to Ken, PLA troops moved in around 8:30 p.m., "with huge armored transport trucks and put out some of the fires. A new fire, however, which is taller than any building around, has just been started recently." Paul described the vehicles as having "big fat tear-gas guns and big fat cameras on it, versus Tibetans with machetes and sticks." With military vehicles now in the streets, Paul went to the roof and saw fires burning in the north of the city. "Tibetans are huddled around on roofs across the city, for safety and to watch what is happening below." Later, a European traveler joined the group holed up in the hotel room. He claimed to have seen two dead Tibetans and said that he saw Tibetans attack Muslims and Chinese randomly. "They were aiming to kill Muslims and Chinese for a free Tibet," he said. When pressed for details, he said he saw the bodies at 7 p.m., covered with sheets, opposite a small hospital in the old section of Lhasa, in the Muslim quarter east of the hotel. He assumed they were Tibetans because they were being carried away by Tibetans into a four-wheel-drive vehicle. They brought one body into a hospital. The European traveler said he was hiding out with a Tibetan family but eventually got kicked out when he disagreed with their sentiment that all Chinese and Muslims should be removed from Tibet. A monk who was with the family asked him to leave, to avoid confrontation
on the other hand, some chinese travel agents said the tibetans started the violence by burning an empty tourist bus. (link ) of course, burning and stabbing random Han civilians on the streets and torching their properties are perfectly reasonable ways to respond to the police brutality against some tibetan monks ... even though some of the police might have been tibetans themselves. guess that fireman should have left the fires burning then... nice machete ...
Well, now it's been confirmed. Ten innocent civilians were murdered in the riots, including two muslim store owners and two TIBETAN hotel workers. They were set on fire and burnt to death. Why are Tibetans killing Tibetans, you ask? Because they were simply trying to protect their property. So are these people "freedom fighters" or simple thugs out to take advantage of a lawless situation?
When reporting international affairs, the American medias are just as bias as the the Chinese medias. I have been in both countries long enough to know that.
And the NY Times weren't there either. They, and the other Western media, were getting their info from the so-called "Free tibet" crowd. Guess how trustworthy that is. Now eye-witness accounts from tourists are starting to come out. Read those and judge for yourselves. It doesn't matter what your opinion on the Tibetan situation is. Murder is murder, and cannot be tolerated anywhere and for whatever reasons.
Freedom fighters, racists/segregationists/separists, domestic terrorists with international ties, thugs, Daaali Lamaa followers are all inter-changeable.
I'm taking the NYT over sina.com internet forums or official chinese state media, sorry brah. I wonder how many hundreds of tibetans the chinese army will kill this time, if it will be as many back in the early 90's. Maybe they will keep it respectable for the Olympics and stop at 99. Really, the Chinese government should just exterminate or deport them all, that's what they want to do, so just go ahead and do it, then we don't have to have this discussion anymore. Then we can pave over the Jokhang and put a department store there and turn the Potala into a KFC.
there are. vast amount of natural resources and land. just like how americans are trying to get oil everywhere. except the difference is, china has a long history with all his neighbors. boundaries have always been questionable. tibet sacked ancient chinese capital while china was in a huge civil war. unlike americans, who have nothing to do in iraq or other places. anyways, tibet can't survive without china anyways. they are land locked in all sides.
if there were any killed, the number would have been reported. the western media would jump all over it. honestly, i take chinese media (not sina) over NYT anyday. and i lived most of my life outside of china.
NO, chinese army DO NOT fire shot, unless there is a DIRECT ORDER from the authority. never was the case that soldiers fire at the mob anywhere in china without orders.
Yes, believing the state-censored media is very convenient, if you want to avoid any embarrassing news about the state.
i think it's pretty obvious at the moment, that so many foreigners are in tibet at the moment. from their statements, i don't think it's far from the truth. i doubt they will be helping the government. and look, if for whatever reason, and territory is lost during their reign, they will no longer be the government. so the government will do whatever it can, to stay in power. they are doing what the chinese people want. any part become separated will create rebellion in china.
cell phone calls have been going out the whole time. it seems like, you don't want the truth to be told by the foreigners, so it would preserve the images of "peaceful" demonstration. actually, just reported, soldiers started to go hard on them. whatever that means. actually, a professor at college said (which is true), that the exile government is extremely biased. due to most of them are upper classes that ran away. they want their power back so everything from them are pretty much biased. just like the PRC. so i wouldn't take any of them as the truth. just something you have to judge yourself. i doubt the real truth will ever be known. again, something to judge yourself.
Isn't that how the white settlers took America, by exterminating the natives? And how about your great state of Texas, I am sure you know how it became American, right? Anyway, more eyewitness accounts coming out, this time from a British Journalist with the Economist, sounds to me remarkably like the LA riots a few years back, fueled by race and greed. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...ll&offset=0 And this particular segment for you, seems like the police is being remarkably restrained, "Late in the evening, two or three fire engines moved down Beijing Road accompanied by a few armoured personnel carriers. I walked past these and saw the police quietly sitting on top of them with their automatic rifles and helmets, but even when this well protected they did not deploy on the street at this stage. The authorities’ main concern in the evening was to stop the fires from engulfing the narrow alleyways of the old Tibetan quarter. As they put out the fires, Tibetans watched but did not attempt to stop them. Neither did the occasional police vehicle venturing up and down Beijing Road attempt to stop any of the Tibetans walking past. It seemed as the night wore on that the authorities were still waiting for a political decision to be made as to how to handle the unrest. I saw lines of riot police in two places at the perimeter of the riot-torn area and I saw riot police walking in front of the Jokhang temple alongside one of their vehicles with helmets and riot shields, but not firearms. Beyond these limited displays of strength, the authorities watched and waited and allowed the riots to take their course."
Yeo, your link doesn't work. I believe you are looking for this one: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3556473.ece?token=null&offset=0 I copy and paste for your viewing pleasure: From The Times March 15, 2008 'They stopped attacking the boy when I rushed forward' Security forces stand by as the worst riots in 50 years are fuelled by Tibetans fighting for recognition The violence erupted suddenly and clearly caught the authorities by surprise. Lhasa has not seen any rioting on this scale for 20 years, possibly not for the past 50, although tensions have been high this week because of the anniversary of the 1959 uprising in Tibet and fuelled by the desire of many Lhasa residents who wanted world attention to their plight as the Olympics approach. It began with an attack on monks near one of Lhasa’s temples. The security forces are reported to have beaten a couple of monks with their fists and this led to a monk retaliating by throwing stones at police and police vehicles. Nearby crowds then joined in, throwing stones at Chinese shops and businesses. I saw a group of a hundred or so residents breaking up pieces of concrete and throwing them at the windows of Chinese shops as hundreds of on-lookers cheered. There was no sign of any attempt by security personnel during all of this to restore order. For an entire afternoon and into the evening Lhasa was under the control of rioters. At the outset, the violence was also directed at passers-by who appeared to be ethnic Chinese. I saw one boy on a bicycle and people throwing stones towards him. As a foreigner, like other foreigners in Lhasa, I was treated with respect by the demonstrators. When I rushed forward to stop them attacking the boy, they ceased throwing their stones. Several taxis I saw driving past had stones thrown through their windows. And a bus caught in the middle of the crowd had stones thrown at it. A small group of people carried a Chinese flag out into the middle of the street and trampled on it. Throughout the afternoon groups of people came out from various houses. Sometimes just one or two teenage youths armed with traditional Tibetan knives, sometimes large groups of dozens, attacked Chinese shops, most ethnic Chinese themselves having fled in the early stages of the violence, leaving their shops shuttered but not secure enough to prevent them from being broken into by the mob. They hauled out everything they could from row after row of Chinese shops. I saw them dragging out clothing , large pieces of meat and gas canisters, all of which they heaped on to the streets and set alight, with occasional explosions as the canisters caught fire. Within two or three hours, the main Beijing Road that runs through the middle of Lhasa was engulfed in flames with fires every few yards and one or two buildings ablaze. In one side street I saw two burnt-out cars as well as two fire engines that had been set on fire by the mob. As a gesture of celebration and defiance, many of the demonstrators took rolls of lavatory paper and threw them up over electricity wires so that many of the side streets were filled with hanging strips of paper, which they intended to resemble traditional Tibetan scarves. One toyshop had been broken into and was swarming with children who were carrying away the merchandise. At one point, a monk dragged me into a monastery building to keep me away from the crowds. He took me into a back room where, as we were talking, a teenage boy rushed up and prostrated himself before the monk. The monk asked him whether he was a Tibetan or a Han Chinese. The boy said that he was a Han and begged for protection, which the lama offered in the warren of rooms of the building. After nightfall, the crowds melted away with groups still huddled in doorways watching the fires ablaze, and the columns of smoke furling across the city and disappearing over the distant Potala Palace. Late in the evening, two or three fire engines moved down Beijing Road accompanied by a few armoured personnel carriers. I walked past these and saw the police quietly sitting on top of them with their automatic rifles and helmets, but even when this well protected they did not deploy on the street at this stage. Related Links The authorities’ main concern in the evening was to stop the fires from engulfing the narrow alleyways of the old Tibetan quarter. As they put out the fires, Tibetans watched but did not attempt to stop them. Neither did the occasional police vehicle venturing up and down Beijing Road attempt to stop any of the Tibetans walking past. It seemed as the night wore on that the authorities were still waiting for a political decision to be made as to how to handle the unrest. I saw lines of riot police in two places at the perimeter of the riot-torn area and I saw riot police walking in front of the Jokhang temple alongside one of their vehicles with helmets and riot shields, but not firearms. Beyond these limited displays of strength, the authorities watched and waited and allowed the riots to take their course. One Chinese trader told me as she sat terrified above her shop that she had lost 200,000 yuan (£14,000) of bicycles after doing business in Lhasa for only a few weeks. As I spoke to her in Mandarin, she begged me to keep my voice down lest the sound of the Chinese dialect excite the people outside. And we spoke in darkness in case they recognised that Chinese traders were still in the building. The violence was fuelled by rumour. There was rumour of killings of monks and ordinary Tibetans by security forces during the day – including reports, unconfirmed, that a handful had been shot dead in front of the Jokhang Temple itself. I saw no evidence of deaths, but many people to whom I spoke were convinced that not only Tibetans had died, but that a number of ethnic Chinese had also been killed by the mob. Destination Lhasa — It is technically necessary to obtain a special visa for travel in Tibet before you arrive, in addition to a Chinese visa. But many websites say it is possible to travel to Chengdu then catch a flight to Lhasa — Another way to get to Lhasa is on the high-altitude daily express train running between Beijing and Lhasa. The journey takes 48 hours and full details and timetables can be found on chinatibettrain.com — You will not be able to buy a railway ticket from a tour operator unless it is part of a package, but if you are planning to travel around Tibet, you could buy one as soon as you arrive. Visit Tibet Travel & Tours (00 86 891 6922114, www.visittibet.com) will sell you a sleeper berth for £110 if you book 11 days in advance — Expert opinion varies on both the safety and morality of travel to Tibet. The British Foreign and Commonwealth Office says go, the Australian Government says no. The pressure group Free Tibet recognises that travelling lends legitimacy to China’s occupation but also that visitors are encouraged by the Dalai Lama to engage with Tibetans and provide information to support organisations outside the country — The excellent Tibet travel website Himmies says: “The Dalai Lama actually encourages people to go to Tibet and then tell the world what they have seen”
