says who? even the chinese government said, it's planned by the lama's followers. he doesn't need to organize it ok. they are all his followers, obviously that's a true statement. i don't think any of the posters suggested he himself directly planned everything out.
link more accounts of the violence. it's pretty obvious there were a lot of thugs targetting anyone (han, muslims, etc.) including the well to do tibetans.
Alright, so now you have backpedalled and emphasized that it is "Cultural Genocide" instead of "Genocide". I wonder why you would only say "Genocide" before in order to falsely imply and paint a false image of mass killing. What a way to dramatize and sensationalize your own posts. Oh, I have one more question. Do you still consider anyone who thinks the media is lame to have doctored the picture to be pro-"Cultural Genocide"?
oh yawn, i'm backpedaling am I? Well then I'll repedal and call it regular old genocide. I don't really see that as a huge backpedal but since you're reading every modifier literally, go ahead and call it that if it makes you happy. It's probably technically not since there's no mass killing, it's soft genocide consisting of both stifling tibetans and their culture, and most importantly, deliberately ostracizing and overwhelming them via resettlement, the presence of the People's Occupation Army, making them into minoriiteis in their own land, which is not really their own, since the invasion and occupation. The results of this are on display this week. Happy little model chinese citizen tibetans (like the kind broadcast on CCTV) don't go on week-long riots, nor can it be the product of a tiny group of thugs - chinese police are not especially competent, I imagein, but not that incompetent either. Rather, the outcome this week is the work of an oppressed people. No, see, not according to brainwashing party line, it's not genocide. you're just in favor of elevating your poor backwards Tibetan cousins by making them into good little obedient chinese speakers and employees in chinese buisness enterprises, It's not genocide - it's charity! Hu Jintao is a national hero to all Tibetans.
LOL, when will you man up and finally face the questions? Your tactic of dodging challenging questions is getting old in a hurry. Let me once again lay it out for you in the most plain and simple way here. I have basically raised three points in this thread: (1) The media is lame to have doctored the picture. (2) Sam Fisher accuses anyone who thinks the media is lame to have doctored the picture of being pro-CCP, pro-China nationalist, or pro-genocide (in order to paint a false image of mass killing). (3) Same Fisher has gradually backpedalled and emphasized it is pro-Cultural genocide instead of pro-genocide. What's do they have anything to do with whatever party line in your mind? What's up with "elevating your poor backwards Tibetan cousins"??? And how did Hu Jintao get into this discussion? Is it because he's such a hero to you that you just can't stop mentioning his name? I think cultural genocide is wrong. Tibetans should be able to preserve their own culture. I honestly have never been Tibet before so I have no idea how serious the situation is. And I have no idea whether there is really an effort out there to replace the Tibetan culture with the Han culture. But I'd definitely oppose it if there is one. Now, I think it's very lame of you to have intentionally made it out like it is mass killing by just saying 'genocide'. I hope you are capable of making a good argument without sensationalize and exergerating stuffs. Now, don't keep going around the questions. What about making an attempt just for once to address directly the point (1) (2) and (3) above.
i have friends that have been there before. so it's not first hand experience. but it sounded like other parts of china. there are poor people, there are rich people. it really depends on who you talk to. and i wouldn't bother to "convince" some of the posters here. "shun zhe chang, ni zhe wang" jk here. people can yap all they want, in the end, things will go the way it's supposed to. talk is cheap.
I am not talking about wealth there. I think it's very nice to have been raising the living standard of the Tibetans there and make that region a part of the modernization process of your country. I give you guys credits for that. But it doesn't mean the Tibetans have to give up their culture in exchange for the wealth. For the minorities there, being Chinese citizens and being able to preserve their own culture is not mutually exclusive. Do you agree?
oh, i didn't really read carefully. was just commenting on the back and forth jabs with other posters. however, for culture, there is absolutely no reason to preserve a culture completely, especially if it's outdated. just look back, all of the cultures today are differetn from the past. it will develop and change slowly, WILLINGLY or NOT. if you can adapt quickly to the changes, like china, you will be fine. if not, then you won't survive. i'm NOT saying to force culture changes at a fast pace or even at all, but you have to realize it's going to change no matter what. and the current trend is, western pop culture merged with domestic philosophy, religious, and such. in my view, by investing money in tibet, isn't "culture genocide". it's inevitible. globazliation = money. if not, you'll be dirt poor. chinese peole never willingly introduced western culture. it was forced upon china by the western countries.
I have admitted I have never been Tibet before so I do not have first hand experience about what's really happening there. I also do not want to draw my conclusion just based on what the media wants me to believe. Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with natural assimilation. But I do have problem if there is really a concerted effort to replace the local culture there with the Han culture, like some people have claimed. That's racism in another form.
well, racism is hard to define. i am personality at least 2 chinese ethnic groups. obviously the main one, plus a very small one that has own culture, own region, even own religion. there are counties where majority are of that group only, same as some of the tibetan counties in other parts. people there are in remote areas, dirt poor. i mean, what can i say. even though, i'm mostly han, but people in my family who are closer to that group and their relatives, never complained racism. my cousins even have minority on their ID card, so they can get extra points in the exams. i mean, honestly, i felt much more racism in US than in China.
Letter submitted to South China Morning Post Barry Sautman, Associate Professor of Social Science at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology Protests in Tibet and Separatism: the Olympics and Beyond Barry Sautman The protests in Lhasa and other Tibetan areas last week were organized to embarrass the Chinese government ahead of the Olympics. The Tibetan Youth Congress (TYC), the major Tibetan exile organization that advocates independence for Tibet and has endorsed the use of violent methods to achieve it, has said as much. Its head, Tsewang Rigzin, stated in a March 15 interview with the Chicago Tribune that since it is likely that Chinese authorities would suppress protests in Tibet, "With the spotlight on them with the Olympics, we want to test them. We want them to show their true colors. That's why we're pushing this." Several groups of Tibetans were likely involved in the protests, including in the burning and looting of non-Tibetan businesses and physical attacks against migrants to Lhasa. The large monasteries have long been centers of separatism, a stance cultivated by the TYC and other exile entities. Monks are self-selected to be especially devoted to the Dalai Lama. However much he may characterize his own position as seeking only greater autonomy for Tibet, monks know he is unwilling to recognize that Tibet is legitimately part of China, an act that China demands of him as a precondition to formal negotiations. Because the exile regime eschews a separation of politics and religion, many monks adhere to the Dalai Lama's stance of non-recognition of the Chinese government's legitimacy in Tibet as a religious obligation. Reports on the violence have underscored that Tibetan merchants competing with Han and Hui Chinese are especially antagonistic to the presence of non-Tibetans. Alongside monks, Tibetan merchants were the mainstay of protests in Lhasa in the late 1980s and early 1990s. This time around, many Han and Hui-owned shops were torched. Many of those involved in the arson, looting, and ethnic-based beatings are also likely to have been unemployed young men. Towns have experienced much rural-to-urban migration of Tibetans with few skills needed for urban employment. Videos of the riots in Lhasa showed almost all those involved to have been males in their teens or twenties. In that regard, the actions in Lhasa differed sharply from the broad-based demonstrations of "people power" in places like Southeast Asia. Tibetans have legitimate grievances about not being sufficiently helped to compete for jobs and in business with migrants to Tibet. There is also job discrimination by migrants in favor of family members and people from their native places. The gaps in education and living standards between Tibetans and Han are substantial and too slow in narrowing. Raising these grievances however is a very different matter from the calls for Tibet's independence that featured in last week's demonstrations. The grievances have long existed, but the protests and rioting took place this year because it is an opportune time for separatists to advance their agenda. While there is no chance that separatists will succeed in detaching Tibet from China by rioting, they believe that China will eventually collapse, like the former Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, and they seek to establish their claim to rule before that happens. Alternatively, they think that the United States might intervene, as it has elsewhere, to foster the breakaway of regions in countries to which the US is antagonistic, e.g. Kosovo and southern Sudan. The Chinese government also fears such eventualities, however much they are unlikely to come to pass. It accordingly acts to suppress separatism, an action that comports with its rights under international law. International law also gives the Chinese government the right to regulate religious institutions to prevent them from being used as vehicles for separatism. The separatists know they can count on the automatic sympathy of Western politicians and media, who view China as a strategic economic and political competitor. Western elites have thus widely condemned China for suppressing riots that these elites would never allow to go unsuppressed in their own countries. Witness, for example, the Los Angeles riots of 1992, in which 53 people died. Western leaders urge China to exercise restraint, but neither they, nor the Dalai Lama have criticized those Tibetans who engaged in ethnic-based attacks and arsons. Western elites give the Chinese government no recognition for significant improvements in the lives of Tibetans as a result of subsidies from the China's central government and provinces, improvements that the Dalai Lama has himself admitted. Western politicians and media also consistently credit the Dalai Lama's charge that "cultural genocide" is underway in Tibet, even though the exiles and their supporters offer no credible evidence of the evisceration of Tibetan language use, religious practice or art. In fact, more than 90% of Tibetans speak Tibetan as their mother tongue. Tibet has about 150,000 monks and nuns, the highest concentration of full-time "clergy" in the Buddhist world. Western scholars of Tibetan literature and art forms have attested that it is flourishing as never before. The riots in Tibet have done nothing to advance discussions of a political settlement between the Chinese government and exiles, yet a settlement is necessary for the substantial mitigation of Tibetan grievances. For Tibetan pro-independence forces, a setback to such efforts may have been their very purpose in fostering the riots.
Let me show you guys some truth about what happened in Tibet. A group of Dalai Lama's monks and fellows ATTACKED civilians and police officer in Lahsar. Look at those picture, if anyone could call that as a "peaceful" protest, well, what else i could say..Look at the shield on the right top, they even broke special armed police's shiled, omg! They robbed equipments from police officers the real peaceful one is militiary forcefeel so bad for them, what happen if protesters broke military's vehicles in U.S.?they wil open fire immediately! They burned everything, i guess thats the "free" tibet would be look like Chaos everywhere
more truth photos Protester holding blades chasing cilvilians group of brutal "protesters" killing vivialians 12minutes ago, 2 youngs were killed on this street when they were trying to get a taxi one of the them from killing above. his head...got chopped off...so peaceful !good job tibetan protester. another civilian got killed just on the street They also burned down the bus Dalai lama's fella making violence everywhere in the city, there r not enough police officer to stop them
till now, there are more than 200 civilians dead and more and more wounded, 2 police officer dead, and 30s of them wounded. The chaos stil continued, if thats the way that CBC and ABC called as "protest".......
I think that's a pretty telling statement. The Dalai Lama is admitting that there is violence and rioting going on. Not only does he admit it, he condemns it. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080318/D8VFQ2000.html I have to give him some credit there. A lot of other people seem to still have their blinders on.
I don't care free whatever slogan, but reading newspapers like NYT make slight of the violence and telling only one side of the story just makes me scoff. And this is a country who's supposedly fighting terrorism and supports Israelis whenever forever.
