You guys still arguing over this? With the usual characters and usual stances. I suggest let's declare the third world war and move on.
Time for some more reading lessons. Written by a western scholar. This is Chinese government propaganda too? Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth, by Michael Parenti Some excerpts for those who cann't be bothered to read the whole thing. "Religions have had a close relationship not only with violence but with economic exploitation. Indeed, it is often the economic exploitation that necessitates the violence. Such was the case with the Tibetan theocracy. Until 1959, when the Dalai Lama last presided over Tibet, most of the arable land was still organized into manorial estates worked by serfs. These estates were owned by two social groups: the rich secular landlords and the rich theocratic lamas. Even a writer sympathetic to the old order allows that “a great deal of real estate belonged to the monasteries, and most of them amassed great riches.” Much of the wealth was accumulated “through active participation in trade, commerce, and money lending.” " "Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there, they were bonded for life. Tashì-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was common for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated rape, beginning at age nine. 14 The monastic estates also conscripted children for lifelong servitude as domestics, dance performers, and soldiers." "The majority of the rural population were serfs. Treated little better than slaves, the serfs went without schooling or medical care, They were under a lifetime bond to work the lord's land--or the monastery’s land--without pay, to repair the lord's houses, transport his crops, and collect his firewood. They were also expected to provide carrying animals and transportation on demand.16 Their masters told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama. And they might easily be separated from their families should their owners lease them out to work in a distant location. " "One 22-year old woman, herself a runaway serf, reports: “Pretty serf girls were usually taken by the owner as house servants and used as he wished”; they “were just slaves without rights.”18 Serfs needed permission to go anywhere. Landowners had legal authority to capture those who tried to flee. One 24-year old runaway welcomed the Chinese intervention as a “liberation.” He testified that under serfdom he was subjected to incessant toil, hunger, and cold. After his third failed escape, he was merciless beaten by the landlord’s men until blood poured from his nose and mouth. They then poured alcohol and caustic soda on his wounds to increase the pain, he claimed." Now do people understand why the Chinese say they "liberated" Tibet? And why the lamas are so mad?
Well I'm glad the PRC is more pragmatic in the diplomacy.... But sure, do it. The US would be happy to have another superpower get all the negative attention.
LOL ... which one are we witnessing: 1) Commies have taken over NYPD, as the moron cameraman claims, or 2) thugs are being dealt with justly according to law and order common to every country, as the moron's video camera is showing? YouTube Video of the Year!
I don't mean to be rude, but your comments read like a bit of a non-sequitur. I don't understand what you are trying to say. Kurdis? I don't know what that is. I even Googled it thinking I must be missing something obvious, but no luck. Do you mean Kurdish? or Kurtis? If you are advocating for the liberation and unification of Kurdish people, I'm sure they appreciate your support of Kurdistan, and I too wish them all the luck in the world. But it still seems like a non-sequitur in the context of my post. If you meant something else, could you please explain? anyway... found the following from the LA Times which I'm sure will elicit annoyed responses from some: [rquoter] China plays victim for its audience Government media images of Tibetans as the aggressors stoke support at home. LANZHOU, CHINA -- Even as China faces global criticism for its crackdown on Tibetan Buddhists, it's winning the battle that it most cares about: support for its policies among Chinese back home. One key factor is a media strategy that, while still blunt and heavily reliant on censorship and propaganda, shows more nuance than usual for the lumbering Communist Party. This last week the government has used something it traditionally viewed as a big negative, any suggestion that it's not in total control, to its advantage by going large with print, still and video coverage of Tibetans attacking Han Chinese in the Tibetan capital, Lhasa, and destroying their property. Not only does this rather ironically paint the Chinese state and its massive police force as something of a victim, analysts said, but it also stirs up feelings of fear and anger among many Han, the nation's majority population, that add a personal dimension to the riots. At a political level, the coverage has also bolstered the government's assertion that its archenemy, the Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, is masterminding the protests from abroad and the atheist government's long-standing contention that Tibetan monks are anything but neutral, nonpolitical and peace-loving. Many of the videos of the riots on the state-run CCTV website have been shot and edited to point up crimson-robed monks bashing and burning with the best of the mob. And to the extent the Dalai Lama has stopped short of outright condemning the monks and the protest, China gains points. "In this crisis, their strategy has been pretty effective," said Xiao Qiang, director of the China Internet Project at UC Berkeley. "They've been able to portray it as 'we Chinese' versus 'they Tibetans' and seen public opinion go their way." This policy is a case of making a virtue of necessity given that absolute control of information has become increasingly difficult. The state's information guardians have also picked up a few other tricks. They're using more individual stories of Han families who were victimized in Tibet, aware that a personal narrative is far more powerful than vague propaganda language. And they've sprinkled their official dispatches with such terminology as "bloggers," "netizens" and "blogosphere" to look more current and inclusive. At the same time, the approach is more of a paint job than a renovation as China's propaganda ministry continues to use many traditional tactics honed in dusty Soviet offices decades ago. Unrest is blamed on "outside" elements, Tibetans are urged to report on other "troublemakers" and there are hints, although no guarantees, of leniency for those who turn themselves in. On other fronts, the "Great Firewall," China's Internet filtering and monitoring system, has been in overdrive during the last week, deleting comments furiously and blocking Internet searches of such terms as "Tibet," "Lhasa," "demonstration" and "March 14" -- the day of protests in which at least 10 people were killed. Some pro-government comments have found their way onto the Internet, though many are anonymous and there is no fast way to determine their origin. "I strongly condemn the Dalai clique trying to undermine China's prosperity," said an anonymous posting from the southern city of Guangzhou on the popular Sohu portal. Independent views opposing the government are strongly discouraged. The government has banned travel by foreigners to Tibet. "The control strategy comes from the very top and it's well orchestrated," Xiao said. "It's more intense than I've ever seen." Although international opinion is important, particularly as Beijing prepares to hold the Olympics in August, all politics are local, even in China. And for the party, maintaining its monopoly political grip on its far-flung empire is central to its strategy and continued existence, underscoring its vow that Tibet will never be allowed independence. The strategy has been well received among members of the country's often strongly nationalist Chinese-language community. The government "should send more auxiliary police and arm each one with a rubber stick" against protesters, said a post on the Internet bulletin board Douban. The themes of national unity and respect for the integrity of the motherland have also struck a chord with many in the more sophisticated overseas Chinese Internet community. "The government has done well," said Robert Liu, a blogger who has been studying economics in the U.S. for the last six months. "They're doing better and have a more mature approach, although they still have a long way to go." Growing domestic support of its policies gives the Chinese government political cover to restore order to the restive ethnically Tibetan areas of the Tibet Autonomous Region and Qinghai and Gansu provinces as it sees fit, knowing that accounts of heavy-handed tactics will inevitably surface in an increasingly porous society. This is a different dynamic than in 1989 when many Chinese identified with the students rather than the government in Tiananmen Square. Images of Tibetan rioting are also being employed to bolster the government's core message that foreign human rights groups and activists such as the Dalai Lama are bent on ruining the Olympics to keep China down. The Dalai Lama said Sunday that China deserves to host the Olympics and that the Games should not be boycotted. Although China lacks the democratic institutions, vocal critics or opinion polls that would gauge the effectiveness of its strategy and public perception of its Tibet policies, one indicator may be its censorship of coverage by television networks BBC and CNN inside the country. Instead of blacking out all such Tibet reports, leading to long and annoying instances of blank screens early in the week, the government allowed more of them to air as the week wore on. A BBC report that aired Sunday in Beijing ran 20 minutes, including a five-minute excerpt with the Dalai Lama. "The government is showing more confidence and learning more about spin," said Michael Anti, a well-known Chinese blogger on a Nieman fellowship this year at Harvard. "They've learned more PR tactics from Western people. They see the way the White House and the Pentagon do it." [/rquoter]
Nice theory. You know what? I don't read Chinese state press AT ALL. I read only western press, yet I don't condone violence.
I'm glad that the pro-PRC c nationalists have taken Michael Parenti to be their lord and savior. It really dovetails very nicely to the Cultural Genocide charge (which is not really a charge, it's reality as anyone who has traveled to tibet can tell you). - Mr. Parenti's biggest claim to fame is writing several pro-Serbian books about the ethnic cleansing years. He's one of the west's leading scholars in state-sponsored desruction of ethnic minorities! Nice ally!
Ignoramus? What are you f'n 12 years old? Chinese talking about people being brain washed? That's like the biggest kettle calling the pot in the history of mankind. Nice one. Free peoples tend to support rebellion against all Communist invaders and occupiers. You're not going to get any sympathy in this world for people trying to defend themselves from Communist oppression. Only the Chinese would brag about kicking the butts of pacifists. If you believe he's inciting violence, then prove it. China is state controlled so it should have the means to prove any charges against him. We're waiting...
http://www.sinodaily.com/2006/080318130235.tytt565y.html Tourists describe 'merciless' beatings of Chinese in Tibet KATHMANDU, March 18 (AFP) Mar 18, 2008 Rampaging Tibetan youths stoned and beat Chinese people in the Tibetan capital and set ablaze stores but now calm has returned after a military clampdown, tourists emerging from the Himalayan region said Tuesday. "It was an explosion of anger against the Chinese and Muslims by the Tibetans," 19-year-old Canadian John Kenwood told AFP, describing an orgy of violence that swept the ancient city of Lhasa. Kenwood and other tourists, who arrived by plane in Nepal's capital Kathmandu on Tuesday, witnessed the unrest, which reached a climax on Friday when they said Han Chinese as well as Muslims were targeted. They described scenes in which mobs relentlessly beat and kicked ethnic Han Chinese, whose influx into the region has been blamed by Tibetans for altering its unique culture and way of life. Kenwood said he saw four or five Tibetan men on Friday "mercilessly" stoning and kicking a Chinese motorcyclist. "Eventually they got him on the ground, they were hitting him on the head with stones until he lost consciousness. "I believe that young man was killed," Kenwood told AFP, but added he could not be sure. He said he saw no Tibetan deaths. Tibet's government-in-exile said on Tuesday the "confirmed" Tibetan death toll from more than a week of unrest was 99. China has said "13 innocent civilians" died and that it used no "lethal" force to subdue the rioting. The Tibetans "were throwing stones at anything that drove by," Kenwood said. "The young people were involved and the old people were supporting by screaming -- howling like wolves. Everyone who looked Chinese was attacked," said 25-year-old Swiss tourist Claude Balsiger. "They attacked an old Chinese man on a bicycle. They hit his head really hard with stones (but) some old Tibetan people went into the crowd to make them stop," he said. Kenwood recounted another brave rescue when a Chinese man was pleading for mercy from rock-wielding Tibetans. "They were kicking him in the ribs and he was bleeding from the face," he said. "But then a white man walked up... helped him up from the ground. There was a crowd of Tibetans holding stones, he held the Chinese man close, waved his hand at the crowd and they let him lead the man to safety." Reacting to the tourists' accounts, Thubten Samphel, a spokesman for the Tibetan government-in-exile in the northern Indian hill town of Dharamshala, called the violence "very tragic." The Tibetans "have been told to keep their struggle non-violent," he told AFP by telephone. The unrest began after Tibetans marked on March 10 the 49th anniversary of their failed uprising against Chinese rule in 1959. Then, Tibet's Buddhist spiritual leader the Dalai Lama trekked through the Himalayas and crossed into India, making Dharamshala a base after the revolt. By last Saturday, Chinese security forces had locked down the Tibetan capital. The Chinese military ordered tourists to stay in their hotels from where they said they could hear gunfire and tear gas shells exploding. On Monday the tourists were allowed some movement but had to show their passports at frequent checkpoints. "Shops were all burnt out -- all the merchandise was on the street in a bonfire. Many buildings were gutted," said Serge Lachapelle, a tourist from Montreal in Canada. "The Muslim district was entirely destroyed -- every store was destroyed," said Kenwood. "I was able to go and eat in a restaurant (outside the hotel) this morning (Tuesday). The Tibetans were not smiling anymore," he said.
Speaking of culture, among all the hubris about reincarnation and what not, Dalai Lama is actually contemplating doing away with the traditional reincarnation process all together, and letting himself APPOINT a new Dalai himself, as reported by NYT. He has already motioned this to his council. I guess Dalai himself is THE culture then. It's all my cultural is better than your culture, it's all politics. The cultural talk also reminds me of that documentary of US armies doing nothing during the time of looting in national museum of Iraq, despite the repeated plea from the Iraqis. Thousands years of history gone, many symbols of Iraqi culture permanently destroyed. I didn't hear the State department say nothing about cultural genocide then?
If anything the last 20 years should show they don't have to physically beat the PRC or even burn their homeland. The Tibetan diaspora is wide and if they wanted to could launch a worldwide terrorist campaign against the PRC and PRC interest. They would follow the assymetric warfare model of groups like the Hezbollah.
Young man, defending themselves from Communist oppression does not equal attacking and killing innocent civilians. I suggest going after PLA directly, what do you say?
For those who think the Dalai Lama is behind the violence he has come out and threatened to step down if violence by Tibetans continues he has also denied he is behind the violence and the PRC is yet to release evidence that he is. http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/18/tibet.unrest/index.html [rquoter]BEIJING, China (CNN) -- The Dalai Lama will step down as leader of Tibet's government-in-exile if violence by protesters in the region worsens, the exiled spiritual leader said Tuesday after China's premier blamed his supporters for the growing unrest. The Chinese prime minister accuses me of all these things I said," the Dalai Lama said. "Absolutely not. Prime minister come here and investigate thoroughly all our files, or record my speeches. Then the prime minister will know how much is distorted by local officials." However, he said he was concerned by the wave of violence in Tibet which erupted last Friday and has left an undetermined number of people dead. "If things go out of control then my only option is to completely resign," he said. A spokesman for the Dalai Lama later clarified that he was referring to his political role as Tibetan leader-in-exile, rather than his spiritual role, AP said. "If the Tibetans were to choose the path of violence he would have to resign because he is completely committed to non-violence," Tenzin Takhla told reporters. "He would resign as the political leader and head of state, but not as the Dalai Lama. He will always be the Dalai Lama." Earlier, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao had blamed supporters of the Dalai Lama for the recent violence in Tibet. He also said Chinese forces exercised restraint in confronting unrest there. "There is ample fact and we also have plenty of evidence proving that this incident was organized, premeditated, masterminded and incited by the Dalai clique," Wen said in a televised news conference. The precise number of victims -- and which side they were on -- remained in dispute, but James Miles, a reporter for The Economist, said it appeared that the dead included Tibetans as well as Han Chinese who live and operate businesses in Tibet. Watch Chinese police on the streets » Additional clashes have been reported in other parts of China with significant ethnic Tibetan populations. Some Tibetans have long advocated independence for Tibet, which is formally an autonomous region of China. The Dalai Lama stopped short of a call for independence this week but argued that the Chinese treat Tibetans as second-class citizens in their own land. He said Tibetans need a full and genuine autonomy to protect their cultural heritage. The Tibetan government-in-exile said at least 80 people were killed by police in the capital of Lhasa, while local authorities placed the number far lower. Watch riot police search homes » "There are 13 common people who died in the beating, burning and smashing in the riots," said Champa Phuntsok, the head of Tibet's regional government. "They died of fire, asphyxiation and beating. Some of them were set on fire by rioters and died in the burning." Meanwhile global protests have gathered pace, with shows of support for Tibetan independence in South Korea and Australia among others. Sara Sidner, CNN's New Delhi correspondent, reporting from demonstrations in Dharamsala, northeastern India, said: "The protesters have said they are going to protest for as long as it takes." The Dalai Lama accused China on Monday of "cultural genocide" in Tibet -- something Wen dismissed. "Those claims that the Chinese government is engaged in so-called cultural genocide are lies," he said, pledging that Beijing will continue to "protect the culture ... in Tibet." "We will continue to help Tibet improve the livelihood of people of all ethnic groups," Wen said. "We will never waver in this position." Washington has encouraged China's leaders to reach out to the Dalai Lama. "We have really urged the Chinese over several years to find a way to talk with the Dalai Lama, who is a figure of authority, who is not a separatist, and to find a way to engage him and bring his moral weight to a more sustainable and better solution of the Tibet issue," Rice said from Moscow on Monday. The U.S. State Department urged restraint as the Chinese government responds to the Tibetan protesters. Meanwhile, CNN's John Vause witnessed the movement of Chinese military convoys near Tibet on Tuesday. Watch troop movements in Sichuan » "We saw a convoy of military vehicles heading north on the road to Nwaga County here in Sichuan province," Vause reported. "That's where exiled Tibetan groups claim there have been deadly clashes over the last couple of days with more than 30 protesters, including monks, women and children, killed by Chinese security forces." There are also claims of violence by Tibetans against ethnic Chinese. Watch the generational divide among independence activists » China's Xinhua news agency reported Monday that rioters set fires at more than 300 locations in Lhasa on Friday, including residences and more than 200 shops. Xinhua also said they smashed and burned dozens of vehicles, attacked schools, banks, hospitals, shops, government offices, utilities and state media offices. A CNN crew tried to travel to Tibet or Nwaga to investigate the reported clashes, but Chinese security forces turned them back while they were several hundred miles away, Vause reported. During his news conference, Wen made it clear that government forces would maintain control. "We are fully capable of maintaining stability and normal public order in Tibet," he said. E-mail to a friend [/rquoter]
