Well, wouldn't you say it has also shattered the Dalai Lama's official myth that the Tibetans are noble non-violent pacifists? BTW, don't put words in my mouth, I have never claimed all Tibetans are happy with Chinese rule. I am a realist. I expect some Tibetans to be very unhappy. Especially the lamas, who have had their privileged positions taken away from them. And if I were you, I wouldn't be too happy with the events of the past week yet. It's not a Tibetan vs. Chinese situation. The Tibetans themselves are split. Like I said there is a growing secular Tibetan middle class who has a stake in the staus quo and no interest in the Dalai Lama and his empty promises of the next life. Perhaps that's the "cultural genocide" Dalai was talking about. That there is a growing number of his people who no longer believe in him. Here is a couple of examples, the lovely Alan Dawa Dolma and the great singer Han Hong
Ah, the debating trick of the loser again, putting words in people's mouths. Where did I claim SamFisher has never been to Tibet. Over the Internet I don't even know if he is a man or a dog. I said "most of the pro-Dolly crowd in the West I have had contact with cann't even find Tibet on a map". This was a figure-of-speech, but actually also tested out once by me on one unfortunate gentleman. That was one embarrassed young man. LOL.
Here are some other examples, an elite PLA company made up mostly of Tibetans. I wonder whether they are in Lhasa now doing some butt-kicking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzR0PP6TB2w
Hey to be fair, The "stupid westerners" also claim that we're all "pro-genocide". The self-righteous moral outrage has gone both ways here.
Fair enough. The problem I had wasn't so much the moral outrage. It is that he was outraged at Sam for doing exactly what he himself had just done one post earlier (making assumptions about whether someone had been to Tibet and trying to paint the other party as unfamiliar with Tibet). I see his post where he tries to wiggle out of having done what he did, but think it should be self-evident that his post was a reply to and directed at Sam. His self-pwnage is an issue that transcends viewpoints or sides in this discussion. It exists independently of who is right or wrong on the issue of Tibet. It is more a fatal procedural error - something like a logical mobius strip, as opposed to a problem with an actual substantive discussion point or attitude.
There are a few fools in this thread who try to defend every move of the CCP. There are also a few other fools in this thread who assume that everyone who does not speak on your side is pro-CCP, pro-China nationalist or even pro-genocide (seriously can people get even more moronic than making an assumption like that?). Also, according to you, that group even includes people who just think that the media is lame to have doctored the picture. You guys are all nuts.
LOL, whatever. "Pwnage"? You think this is a video game? Anyway, to continue with my previous rant. The governer of Tibet is Tibetan, the mayor of Lhasa is Tibetan, the former Chinese minister of interior was Tibetan... I know, I know, they are all running dogs of the stinking Chinese. But the thing is, there seems to be an aweful lot of these "running dogs" around, like the Lhasa civilians lining up to receive riot equipment in the photo I postd on a previous page. Perhaps they are simply people who wants a stable and prosperous life? Perhaps they simply see no need to shed their own blood or anyone else's for an independent Tibet which hasn't existed for 350 years? Perhaps they just don't want to prostrate themselves in front of an old man who was selected through a ridiculous medieval process and who has not done anything for them? There, there is some more Chinese propaganda for you. Food for thought for anyone willing to think.
If 'idiocy', 'stupidity', or 'logically contradictory babble' sound more grown up to you, that's fine. I would be glad to substitute any one it makes you happy. I avoided those and similar words because I thought they were too aggressive and confrontational. But to each his own.
Well, at least my 'idiocy', 'stupidity', or 'logically contradictory babble' contain more truth than your previous claim that Nepal is more prosperous than Tibet. Another person might have been taken by your play with the numbers. But you see, I have actually travelled to Nepal as well, and what I saw there told me what you claim is impossible. I do some more digging and voila, I catch you red-handed. Anyway, to each his own, like you said. In the end, our debate here doesn't matter a bit in the real world. I am just having a little fun laughing at some fools, that's all.
Is this a video game? The Nazis had quislings from every subjugated country. There are always those willing to sell out their country for a bigger rice bowl. "Quisling, after Norwegian politician Vidkun Quisling, who assisted Nazi Germany to conquer his own country, is a term used to describe traitors and collaborationists. It was most commonly used for fascist political parties and military and paramilitary forces in occupied Allied countries which collaborated with Axis occupiers in World War II, as well as for their members and other collaborators. That Quisling's name should be applied to denote the whole phenomenon of collaborationism is probably due to the place of Norway on the list of countries occupied by the Third Reich. The Nazis were not interested in Polish collaborationism, because they planned to extirpate the Polish nation completely and resettle Poland with Germans, and Denmark fell within a few hours. Thus, Norway was the first country where local, non-German, fascist parties took part in the conquest of their own country after the start of the War." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling Impeach Bush.
Right, about the kind of response I expected. ***** them running dogs! And ***** this little boy too! Who told him to get in the way of "peaceful demonstrators"? We live in a wonderful world. Peace out!
I've heard this argument before and I would also say that more autonomy to some of the PRC's other regions wouldn't be a bad thing either. Both from that it will help pacify those regions but the PRC as a single monolithic entity is inefficient and too difficult to govern. The PRC is already running into problems with inequities of wealth and problems with governance between several provinces already and switching to a more federal system might be better than a centralized government. That is for a different discussion though. Even without granting Xinjiang more autonomy right away the PRC could use agreeing with the Dalai Lama to their advantage in dealing with Xinjiang. Consider that there is no equivalent among the Tibetans of the ETIM and while there have been sporadic violence there has never been an organized violent movement in Tibet or among Tibetan exiles against the PRC. Rather than follow the route of the ETIM, PLO, IRA or ETA the Tibetans on the whole have never seen terrorism as a political tool. The PRC could come to an agreement with the Dalai Lama that in return for continuing to preach peace and negotiation the PRC are granting concessions of their own. This would be a powerful statement to Uighars who have chosen to use terrorism to make their point. The problem though with the PRC history with the Tibet and why it has such a large following throughout the world is that in a time where the British have negotiated with the IRA and even the Israelis with the PLO the PRC seems stubborn and intractable when it refuses to negotiate with a group that hasn't advocated war against the PRC. I've heard this argument but its a tactic that could backfire. Once the current Dalai Lama dies, and presumably the PRC manipulates the choice of the next one, the Tibetans could lose all faith in the Lama leadership and younger more extreme Tibetans could decide that since the old Dalai Lama's negotiations accomplished nothing taking up violence might be a better solution. I posted an article earlier in the thread on this subject.
I'm listening to NPR right now and Dalai Lama has come out and said he doesn't agree or support the violence being caused by Tibetans and has reiterated his call for negotiation. NPR has also broadcast a statement by a PRC spokesman who said he has evidence that the Dalai Lama is behind this but has refused to make it public for now. While I agree that more people should learn more about Tibet, including that there are probably many Tibetans who like PRC rule and the PRC position, but at the same time I would suggest you learn more about the Dalai Lama. He has long repudiated Tibet's backward past and has said that he doesn't want a theocracy back in Tibet.
How can they beat a nuclear power who has one billion Han Chinese who are firmly behind the Communist Party's Tibet policy? I don't think PRC cares if the Tibetans burn their own homeland to the ground.
Apparently overseas Tibetan terrorists have infiltrated the city of ChengDu with large amount of explosives. City blocks have been closed off and a massive manhunt is on, according to Chinese bloggers. http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/03/14/china-fire-on-the-streets-of-lhasa/ "I was just in the crowd and got the latest info! Chengdu's military district has already gone on highest alert, and troops have now been dispatched toward Tibet. Wuhouci Rd. going both north and south have been completely sealed off, cars aren't allowed in. Ximianqiao St. going both east and west has been completely sealed off, cars aren't being allowed in. Shuhan Rd. and another side street are completely filled with police cars which have stopped all traffic. A rough estimate, there's over 200 police, and over 100 police cars of every kind. There's also around 50 police motorbikes, patrolling the streets non-stop in formations of groups of three. Where Wuhouci Rd. E meets Wuhouci Rd. W, there are also fire trucks. Both Wuhouci and Ximianqiao streets have completely become pedestrian streets, not a single car on either. Walking down the streets all you see are flashing police lights. Right now, you do not want to go into crowded areas and start pushing around. The tons of explosives they shipped here to Chengdu from Tibet aren't to be seen now, they've disappeared. Police sent out an internal notice warning a few days ago, that [bleep]ists had entered Chengdu in an attempt to carry out terrorist strikes. These people have spent years overseas studying demolitions and are highly skilled at it, with cruel methods. Experienced police from all over Chengdu have been transferred here." The slide of "Free-Tibet"ers down the long slippery slope of terrorism has begun.
Look who just scuttled out from under the woodworks. Sammy! In to take another potshot before running. Look at all the humongous influx of ethnic Hans to Tibet. Man, Tibetans only account for 90%+ of the population there. Yup, the CCP is doing a great job carting some 60,000 ethnic Hans to Tibet over the last 49 years. And you followed that up with another little gem. I've actually been there myself. Did the tourist thing. Visited temples, talked to Lamas, locals. But I not pretend to have any deeper and/or beyond understanding of the place. However, Ido love how you are the self proclaimed authority. Not that I necessarily agree with yeo (or anybody else's) version, but you had multiple changes to enlighten us with your "facts." I've seen you make no such attempt. Seriously, what a shock huh. And the Americans did invade the Indians and steal their land. I didn't know that was up for debate. What is good for the goose is good for the gander I think. Boy, aren't we in the mood for generalizing. Their opinion is no more bogus than your moronic claim. At least they backed up their opinions with facts. You just ran. They had their chance for 50+ years. Maybe it wasn't their intentions to actually kill them all. I know, crazy, but just an alternate hypothesis, you know.
