Nobody or somebody, I have shown how ignorant he is in what's happening between China and Taiwan currently. And I think he should get himself more familiar with an issue or at least know the basics before he runs his mouth on it. What's your take?
Good post. Certainly a more complicated issue than many here would have believed. And it actually seems to be a pretty objective point of view. I would certainly have to say that the Chinese policy should not be considered genocide and any comparisons with American treatment of the Native North Americans is certainly unfounded. The PRC policy, if anything, seems far more constructive than "manifest destiny".
That is not much of a beatdown. The guy on the motorcycle could have just run away, but he just stood there. Even in rioting the Tibetans are peaceful.
yeah, you are right. by the way, have you seen this minor traffic accident? <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/J0Qu6eyyr4c&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/J0Qu6eyyr4c&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
"Free Tibet" coming from a guy like you, who comments like that, is certainly a disservice to Tibetan people. At least that's how I feel.
Thanks for this post. I also liked how this try to show sort of both sides and the psychological profile of each side of conflict are awesome.
LOL, with the standards of the No-Peace Prize nowadays (Dalai? Yaser Arafat?), he would probably win too.
Excellent read. Thanks. And thank God for the internet. It used to be that all we can get is censored news, on both sides. Now independent-thinking people can at least get the views from both sides. "I asked about China's obligation in Tibet. The answers suggested that my students had learned more from American history than I had intended to teach. One student replied, "First, I will use my friendship to help [the Tibetans]. But if they refuse my friendship, I will use war to develop them, like the Americans did with the Indians." " This part cracked me up, although it's pretty sad really.
Anyone who thinks the Dalai Lama organizes and incites violence in contravention of everything he has stood for and promoted his entire life is probably under the spell of Chinese communist propaganda, not that the Chinese would ever fuel propaganda to perpetuate religious hatred and isolate groups as cults and terrorists because they have no record of doing that... ever. The world outside of China calls that policy a cultural whitewashing by force of arms or in other words a cultural genocide all in the name of faux unity. Explain one thing for me, if China's goal is simply economic development and not cultural genocide then why has China made it illegal for Tibetans to select the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama without Chinese government approval? What part of economic development does that serve? What part of making a joke of a sacred Buddhist legacy is part of any economic development plan for the Tibetan people?
I agree but I might not go so far as saying they are under the spell of Communist propaganda but that they are looking at Dalai Lama through nationalistic lens. If you study the current Dalai Lama's history he has never advocated violence and has even gone so far as to saying that Tibet needed to be opened and in that regard it was good that the PRC came into Tibet. I've heard the inevitable arguments from those who support the PRC position that the Dalai Lama presided over a slavery state. The current Dalai Lama has repudiated that and said that Tibet will never go back to that. He has also called for a secular government in Tibet and vowed to never return to the theocracy. What is also important to remember though is that the Dalai Lama was fifthteen when he took power and that was only due to an emergency move when the PRC troops had already entered Tibet. He never was in position to actually do anything in Tibet as once he took power the place was already under control of the PRC. Even if you don't know anything about the Dalai Lama's history just compare the history of Tibet under the PRC with almost any other occupation conflict. Tibet has been far more peaceful compared to the Palestinian Territories, Chechnya, Northern Ireland, Turkey's Kurdish region or Spain's Basque region and Tibet has been more peaceful even while conditions have been much worse than many of those places. Without the Dalai Lama there is no telling how things might've played out in Tibet. The problem that I see, and it is reflected in many of the posts in this thread, is that the PRC is looking at this in almost totally materialistic terms. Even the Dalai Lama agrees that the PRC have brought in material improvements but the problem is that materialism only goes so far and being a spiritual people with a sense of nationalism of their own the Tibetans aren't going to be bought off with infrastructure improvements. Anyway looking at most other occupation conflicts the PRC should realize that doesn't work. Given Israelis economic might the Palestinians would be better served economically giving into the Israelis, in fact during periods of relative peace the Palestinian economy has boomed due to trade and providing labor to Israel, for most of the history of British occupation Northern Ireland is better off being part of the UK especially since up until 10 years ago Ireland was the poorest country in Western Europe. So while material improvements do go a long way towards placating people that still doesn't mean culture and nationalism don't and it would be naive of the PRC to believe that just providing material improvement will put an end to Tibetan aspirations anymore than Chinese aspirations if China was occupied by foreigners who vastly improve the Chinese standard of living. As I said earlier though there is a solution to this situation that could greatly benefit both sides. Allow the Dalai Lama to return to Tibet and agree to his terms. The Dalai Lama is giving the PRC what they most want, keeping Tibet part of the PRC and leaving overall control of borders and trade to the PRC. In exchange for his return, some more autonomy and non-interference in religious matters. The PRC has to give up very little in exchange for addressing one of their biggest headaches. They also get a moderating leader who can help keep things calm in Tibet. The problem is though as the Dalai Lama gets older and the PRC continues to try to limit his influence in Tibet it is almost inevitable that more radical Tibetan elements will assert themselves. Agreeing to the Dalai Lama is the best course of action for the PRC and Tibet and I hope the PRC realizes that before its too late.
If PRC allows that for Tibet, other ethnicities in China will want the same, most notably Xinjiang. So PRC does need to give up more than you think. But PRC is smart, they know they can wait till Dalai dies and it will be another twenty or thirty years before another Dalai comes to spot light.
LOL, another brain-washed ignoramus. What do you call the rebellion of 1959? "Peaceful demonstration"? I suggest you go look up a book called CIA's secret war in Tibet, you will see how "peaceful" Dalai was. Dalai started professing "pacifism" only after he got his butt kicked when he tried violence. Now he is trying it both ways, inciting violence while pretending to have no knowledge of it.
Another history lesson for you. Since 1757, that's before the United States was even born by the way, the selection of Dalai and Panchen Lamas (who are equal and rival religious leaders) in Tibet had required Central government approval. The established religious process was to select several candidates, who will then draw lots from a golden urn in front of the dead Dalai or Panchen Lama's grave, under supervision from representatives of the Chinese central government, and the selected winner will gain official government approval as the next top dog. The current Dalai himself was selected by this process. It was actually the Chinese government who followed this convention in choosing their candidate for the Panchen Lama, while it was Dalai who flouted tradition by attempting to select the next Panchen Lama himself. Now Dalai is contemplating flouting tradition again by selecting the next Dalai Lama, before he himself is even dead! It's funny how "Tibetan culture and tradition" means nothing all-of-a-sudden when they don't suit his needs.
Uh, our next No-Peace prize winner. You got anything more than just claiming everything you don't agree with as "wrong"? I must say, so far you pro-Dolly posters on this board, aside from one or two exceptions, are proving very poor discussion partners, nothing but slogans and one-liners, while we are producing facts, photos, videos, and independent eye-witness accounts. About what I expected anyway. Most of the pro-Dolly crowd in the West I have had contact with cann't even find Tibet on a map. That of course does not prevent them from the absolute belief that they know better than everyone else.
Look up my old posts on this subject. I love all of our brilliant chinese authorities on the subject - which are people like you who have never been to Tibet or spoken to a single Tibetan. Of course, I have, and you haven't, so I guess I'm one up on you there as well. Anwyay, I know how this boring argument turns out. You claim to have "facts" at your disposal, consisting of nothing more than the party line, then a few posts later, you say "WELL AMERICANS INVADED THE INDIANS AND STOLE THEIR LAND!!!!" This week has been very illustrative - it's basically shattered the CCP official party myth (repeated by many of the very pro-China nationalists posting in this thread) that Tibetans lived in happy, gratefuul subjugation to their helpful "older brother" chinese overlords. Guess that wasn't so true after all. Like I said before - I'm tired of this whole subject. I'm tired of bogus historical explanations and mainlanders who have never set foot in Tibet making bogus explanations about te historical sovreignty of things that happened 500 years ago. None of it afects the present, which is the succesful PRC invasion and occupation of Tibet. That's just reality. Just get it over with and kill them all. You can't have manifest destiny without breaking a few eggs.
I read your whole post and didn't see anything substantive. That was a minute of my life wasted which I will never get back. It's apparent that you cann't sustain this discussion. So yes, go and sulk, that's your best option. BTW, how do you know I have never been in Tibet? Isn't it just typical of you to make such assumptions with no basis?
That is pretty amusing. You play the 'stupid westerners never been to Tibet' card, and when Sam calls you and raises, you suddently manufacture this sudden and intense moral outrage at people who make assumptions. LOL. Take a good look:
