I agree. He loses Shaq and can't even make the playoffs the following year. He doesn't accomplish anything without at least one dominant post player. The Gasol trade kills me because it undeservedly cemented Kobe's Legacy.
I go back and forth on him. His peak value puts him well behind guys like MJ and LeBron (probably even Wade), but there's something to be said for his consistency from 2000-2013. Very few players in history can match that level of sustained excellence over 12+ years. But to make a baseball analogy, he's definitely more Hank Aaron than Babe Ruth.
This is a fact. Dream was at the very back end of his physical prime when he beat Shaq. Dream out playing Shaq was also a fact. You may not like it, you may want to toss around words like homer when those on this board bring it up. But regardless of all of that, it's still a fact. The record will always show that Dream out played Shaq in the finals. Shaq has admitted it (really, what else could he do).
Advantage to Lakers on paper, but that prime Lakers squad got a lot of egos that i don't think Phil Jackson could keep in check. So i think we can beat those douchebags
No, Shaq was in his prime. Which part of his game improved from that year? Shaq was at his absolute physical peak. He had the highest scoring average of his career. His team defeated Michael Jordan and the Bulls in the play-offs. If you think 3rd year Shaq who put up as good of stats as he ever has that season wasn't prime, you weren't paying attention. Shaqs game never improved from that season, ever. If you think it did prove it. Shaqs compitition certainly got weeker.... A lot weeker. Shaqs biggest competition when he was winning rings was arguably Vlade Divacs or Rick Smits. Oooooooh now there's a challenge for you Dream on the other hand (while he was still the best center in the game) was already showing a down turn in some of his stats. - His 3.4 block per game was his lowest per game average in 7 years. Oh By the way, Shaq only topped that once, getting 3.5 his rookie season. Shaq never really approached the 3.4 number again which as I said was Dreams lowest number in 7 season. - his 10.8 rebounds a game were his lowest mark in his entire career up to that point. It was the 1st time in his career that he averaged less than 11.4. Just the season befor he averaged 11.9 and that was his lowest mark in in over 7 seasons when he was regularly at 13 rebounds a game or more and a high point of 14. You know how many times Shaq averaged 14 rebounds a game? Never. Do we really need to get into who was the better defender? Really? Facts are facts. Dream was clearly the best center in the game when he outplayed Shaq but he was clearly already at the back end of his prime. No question about it.
This isn't just a player matchup. You have to remember how much Gary Payton struggled in the Triangle Offense.
Shaq wasnt in his prime... are u really that blind? Homerism is incredible here. What player reachs his prime on his second or third year in the league? Nobody. 2000 shaq was at his peak, not only because he got way stronger but also he was more mature, and that also had a lot to do with the game. He weighted over 50 more pounds by year 2000 and even if hakeem outplayed him on 95 finals, it was more close than a lot of peopple say. Shaq still averaged : 28 ppg, 12.5rpg, 6.3 apg and 2.5 blocks to hakeem 33ppg, 11.5 rpg, 5.5 apg and 2 bpg. Shaq reaching those asssit numbers also tells you how many double teams the rockets throw at him. To me shaq prime was completely imposible to guard. He would just destroy anyone just based on his combination of strengh and athletism.
Ha Ha! Really. You want to use the Championship Series where the Rockets swept the Magic and Dream won the MVP? Really? Ok. YOU LOSE. That may have been the single worst attempt to validate a point in the history of all attempts. Even Shaq said he got out played in that series. But OK. At least you could have used a game or a series where Shaq really did out play Dream. Maybe you should have actually watched that series. Just to drive the point home. Shaqs best year blocking shots was his rookie year at 3.4 and only reached 3 per game one other season. Dream had 3.4 blocks or more 9 times! Three times he was 4.2 or better with a high of 4.6 Shaqs best year rebounding was 13.9 in his rookie season and only hit 13 two more times and never lead the league. Shaq never averaged 12+ rebounds more than 2 consecutive years and doing that only twice. Dream averaged 12 or more 6 straight seasons, 13 or more 4 times and toped out at 14. plus Dream lead the league twice. Shaq never averaged even 1 steal a game Dream is top 10 all time Shaq was a more consistent scorer throughout the course of his career averaging 2 more points a game than Dream. Of course Shaq did not have to play against the same competition as Dream. I think we can all agree that Vlade Divacs and Rick Smits are a huge step down than what Dream faced on a nightly basis. Shaq was a much better passer than Dream. Dream was the best defensive Center off all time and arguably the greatest defensive player of all time. Shaq is not in the conversation. Dream won: 2 Defensive MVP's 2 NBA Finals MVP's (one in a head to head against Shaq) 1 NBA MVP Shaq won: 3 NBA Finals MVP's (lost one to Dream) 1 NBA MVP But you know what don't take my word that Dream was better, take Shaqs word that Dream was the best of all time. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_By2-Z3tOms" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Yeah yeah I know, Shaq was not including himself right? Shaq thinks Shaq is the Best of all time and Dream is number 2 possibly? OK then how about taking the word of a player that won multiple NBA rings with both players: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/n_-9Z2LF4fI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> And just to accent the point of Dreams greatness. I don't think you can find another example of a player absolutely dominating and embarrassing an NBA MVP in a championship series the way Dream dominated David Robinson. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/hW4uXlRGAF0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Like I said. YOU LOSE.
Shaq's game was based on his physical ability to dominate. The extra 50 lbs did not help him with that. His absolute physical peak was when he was with Orlando not LA. So I asked earlier, which part of his game improved when he left Orlando? Did he suddenly develop a hook shot? How about his free throw shooting? He improved it right? Nope. Wait, he became a better defender surely? Nope. Which part of his game improved? The short answer is... wait for it.... here it comes..... NONE. Absolutely no part of Shaqs game improved. Shaq's playing weight in Orlando was Ideal and is backed up by his numbers. If you think my statement about Shaq's prime was ridiculous then it should be easy to support your statement. I supported mine. Maybe it's not as ridiculous as you claim.
If you are just gonna say ROCKETS WON SO HAKEEM > SHAQ then there's no real point in arguing. Shaq's game was better because he was a better passer later on when he was part of the Lakers. His game was very developed. Shaq in 2000-01 was his best year in terms of impact. He was great on both sides without major turnover problems. Also Shaq doesn't put his name in the video. He's asked about the centers he liked the best. He never compares them to himself. But, I mean I post H2H stats of Shaq vs Hakeem in the NBA Finals which Hakeem won and it's clear Shaq played Hakeem evenly at worst. But you're completely ignoring that. That's fine.
also i don't think you watched shaq play. people completely hacked him and doubled/tripled/quadruple teamed him on occasion to try and stop him. Same thing happened to Hakeem. They're both great players. But Shaq at his Lakers peak at his size and strength and manoeuvrability was slightly better to me. Hakeem's peak for me is about 4th best of all time behind Shaq, Jordan and Wilt.
That's fair. He was consistently great and a relevant player in the league for 10 years. However, he's the beneficiary of a cult of personality in the way that most other players can't imagine.
And Robert Horry is just some guy that read about it in the news paper? Oh wait I'm clearly showing my age. So Robert Horry is just some guy that read about it on the internet? Shaqs defense was never great. In an ERA where Eric Dampier proclaimed himself the 2nd best center in the league (which is an indictment in itself) Shaq made all defensive team a total of 2 times and then only on the 2nd team. That is horrible. Why? IMO because he gained weight mainly. Dream was all Defensive team 9 times, 1st team 5 times in an ERA that had Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Moses, Bill Lambier, Mark Eaton, Shaq, Alonzo Morning etc... You say Shaq is better because he was a better passer. I say Dream was better because he was Superior on defense. You say Shaq's game was more advanced and I laugh at that claim. He was a better passer yes but Dream had moves that are far more advanced that anything Shaq ever put on the floor. Shaq's game is so advanced he has zero NBA players paying him to teach them how to play in the post. That is because all of Shaq's post game was based on over powering his opponent. Dream's post game is so advanced that that he has players like Kobe, LeBron and Dwight paying him to teach him the finer things of playing in the post.
No one is saying Dream wasn't more advanced. Hakeem's post moves are so much better than Shaq's could ever hope to be. But guess what. THAT DOESNT MATTER. Just because Shaq was dominant because of his physical stature doesn't take away from his pure dominance over the basketball court. With the Lakers Shaq learned how to be a defensive anchor. He was just so big and shockingly mobile for his size that with proper positioning he helped anchor elite defenses in the NBA. Furthermore, young Shaq straight out of college was doing decently in the golden age of centers. And while there weren't many great offensive centers in Shaq's years some of them like Dikembe were quite good defensively. And I don't understand how you can use the "WATCH THE GAME" argument when the basis of the initial argument was a play by play breakdown of what happened in the game.
The Lakers will easily kill us... with boredom because we'd sweep them quick. Oh wait... are the refs and sturn in their primes too? In that case, it'll be a close one.
A simple question. Was Hakeem in his prime as a player in 1995? If yes, then what's the point in your "end of physical prime", "old Hakeem" stuff? It's a cheap attempt to make your point look stronger, on your end. Hakeem was one of the very best players in the league that year. He embarrassed the league MVP in an earlier playoff round.
