I dont like to tell personal information on message boards but since I have to "prove" myslef to you I will. My father was a sports wriiter and is Highschool basketball coach, i have been watching basketball since I was 5, I really began to understand it around 8 years old, I played organized basketball for over 10 years and I am now in my 4th year of coaching basketball, My teams fastbreak, trust me I know what it takes to make a good fastbreak team. I know for a fact ,because i coach it, that fastbreaks are dependant on good defense, Your best opportunity to score is off a missed shot, a steal or sometimes a blocked shot. Now what does it take for you to get a steal a rebound or a block, I think its defense. Go read Practical Modern Baksetball by Wooden or any book by Morgan Wootten, they all agree that defense is what starts their offense. Coach K is well know for his up tempo style of play but he also says it starts with defense, Riley before he micormangaged, due to the lack of talent he had, was a big fast break guy. If you want to tell me Riley igonres D so be it. I dont care if you argue with me but when you start disagreeing with Wooden, Wootten, coach K, and Pat Riley, then I consider you a . . . . .what was it you called me, oh yeah an IDIOT. They scored more because they were looking to push it up after every miss, look at what the rockets do, they go get the ball from the big men and slowly bring the ball up the court, yet they still get about 90 points a game, think of how much they would score if they pushed the ball up the court, they would score more because they had more chances to score. I guess most teams that play the Kings are poor defensivly because of the number of points the kings put up each game. Go look at the average score from the 95 championship team, its well over 100 points a game, I guess dream wasnt playing D, But the year before in the finals the scoring average was in the 80's. Tell my which rocket team played D? did the 95 team forget how? or did they push it up the floor more? Most teams in the NBA dont push it up the court, Thats why they dont score as much, My teams average 85-90 points a game and thats with 8 minute quarters, not 12 like the nba, But I will tell you this it all starts with defense. If we had 12 minute quarters we would average about 120 a game.
IVFL, WOW!! Did you really have to 'take him out back' like that?! [SARCASM] Interesting correlation, huh, defense fueling the fast-break. [/SARCASM] Now, why are the Rockets among the worst fast-break teams in the league again?
I was borne in 64. I was in high school when Dream, Drexler, Reid Getties and Larry Michouxe (sp?) lost to N.C. State. I just sat in front of the TV with my younger brother and my parents with my jaw hanging to the floor. I Hate You Lorenzo Charles!!! I remember getting pissed when I found out that the Rockets drafted Rodney McCray instead of Clyde that summer. I was in stationed at Ft Eustis, Va. in the Army that following spring and lost money to my room mate when Dream and the Cougars lost to Ewing and Georgtown. I remember sitting in the rec room at Ft. Carson, Co when Dream sucker punched Billy Paultz in Utah during the play-offs in his rookie year. I almost destroyed a freinds apartment the next year after Sampson hit The Shot against the Lakers to send the Rockets to the finals against the Celtics. That may be the single most exciting moment I have ever had as a fan. I still can't discribe how I felt. I was sitting at a place called Cooters off of Richmond and Chimney Rock when I heard that Lewis Lloyed and Mitchel Wiggens were popped for drugs. I could go on and on but I have strayed way off of the topic. Anyway I am old enough and have plenty of memories about the basketball in the 80's. My feelings about basket ball now is that many of the stratigies used by coaches today were made to hide the deficiencies or lack of talent on their team. Walk the ball up the court so the more talented team can not get into a rythem. That way you keep the score down and the game close and when you are down to the closing minutes run isolation plays for your scoring star (if you have one) and you have a chance to win any game. Detroit was the first team that I ever saw actually win a championship with a defense first strategy. Chicago was an exellent defensive team as were all of the eastern teams in the late 80's and early 90's. I love Rudy T. for the two championships he helped bring to the Rockets but the iso offense seems to indicate a lack of confidence in his players ability to run a team oriented passing offense like the Mavs or Kings. His strategy seems to be to take as much time off of the clock as possible to keep the score low and run as many iso's as possible so your stars can win the game with out relying on team play which they may or may not understand. Once again am getting way off of the subject so I'll stop now. I just think that overall the 87 players were superior to the 02 players for many reasons. And I also think the 87 MJ would score points by the truck load against in todays NBA.
Crash, I was born in '64 too, you class of '82? I am going to my 20th year reunion this summer....surreal. DD
I say 2002. Jordan and Hakeem weren't in their prime....that changes everything IMO. Also, anytime you have Tmac and Kobe.......that is really, REALLY scary. No disrespect towards Magic and Bird. Maybe it's my dislike for Magic.....I personally take Stockton or Kidd over him for my all time PG's....no matter what team. Tmac over Bird......again, no disrespect, but Bird hasn't seen someone this skilled at both ends of the court. Shaq over Hakeem simply because Hakeem wasn't "The Dream" 'til '91 IMO. Duncan over Barkley......the only thing Barkley has on Duncan is his mouth. I do take Jordan over Kobe though. And while the Game hasn't changed to the point where it's a totally different game......things like the Jordan Rules and Pistons changed the way defense is played. And as someone mentioned we have freaks of nature like Dirk and Garnett that would be unfair to have on a team back then.
ROTFLMAO! That was a funny post! especially the part about TMac and Kobe over Bird and Magic. That was really funny. Thanks again. Still LMAO!
I wonder how many basketball coaches post on this board? The '87 team wins this game, although the 2002 team does have a chance inside with Duncan and Shaq. Barkley's too small for Duncan, and we're talking Prime Shaq vs Pre-Prime Dream, but Bird, Jordan, and Magic more than make up for that.
I was born in 71, so i have watched and played a lot of ball. Think about this, Jordan comes back after 3 yrs and still avg 25pts. Jordan in his prime never shot under 50%, but now you can't even find big men to shoot 50%. They played d back then as evident by Hakeem avg 4 blks a night and guys like Eaton avg 5 blks per night . The problem now is the players are under developed so the coaches feel the need to scale back and think playing defense is putting up 80 shots a game. Even the Pistons and their defense gave up 100pts a night to the Lakers in the Finals. Its just a case of overcoaching nowdays. 87 would win just on the sheer skill of the players. Their isn't a player on the 2002 that could check Magic period. There would have been matchups problems all over the floor, but I still 87 player were far superior despite having Jordan,Malone,and Hakeem only in their 3rd or 4th seasons.
OverRRated, that is the single worst post I have ever seen. TMac over Bird???? Kidd over Magic??? francis 4 prez, time to give this one up man.
yeah you are wright, Magic is overrated. i think he is just not as good as Eric Snow And Bird is overrated too, al he could do was shoot, and he had just the best basketbal I.Q. of al time. i think he is just as good as, Matt Bullard. now that i think of it, this was a joke ofcourse. Nobody who ever watched basketbal could say such a thing and mean it. Nice joke, i didn't know it was aprils fools day already
Never once did I say any of those players are over-rated. I just feel the '02 team would win. As the game evolves, so does the natural talent of the players as well as the overall understanding of the game at a younger age. Most of the "leaders", and best players now are 26 and under. And some of y'all are speaking as if the '02 just doesn't understand how to play the game. Duncan??? Shaq??? Kidd??? Tmac....young, but has just as much pro experience as Barkley, MJ, and Hakeem did in '87. Kobe....6 years PRO, 2 rings, and is only 23. And never did I call Magic a dumb PG, but I think Stockton is the smartest player I've ever seen...which dates back only to '88.....so maybe I'm not the greatest person to be discussing ALL TIME GREATS..........but I doubt everyone here is over 30. Neither Magic or Bird were great individual defenders, though Bird was a good help defender IMO......and we all know about the great Defense of Sir Charles. Kidd, Tmac, Kobe, and Duncan are all great defenders, no opinion, just fact. This is very important as they are able to switch up on pick and rolls and not really have too bad of a mismatch....if there is one. The defense of the '02 team is also important as there won't have to be as many double teams due to their talent. Oh well, I guess I'm the only one that thinks the '02 team would win.
That quote is not completely correct. I will admit that as a whole the league is more athletic now than in 87 but not on the level of the superstars. Is Kidd as athletic as Magic? No. Is Kobe as athletic as Jordan? No. Is Duncan more athletic than Barkley? Maybe. Is TMac as athletic as Bird? Yes. Is Shaq as athletic as the 87 Dream? Oh hell no! Also the understanding of the game by today?s players does not approach the understanding of the players when Magic, Bird, Jordan and Dream were in the game. One of the problems with the players today is that so many of them spend what should be there developmental years on the end of an NBA bench instead of on a college basketball court. When a player spent three or 4 years with Dean Smith, John Wooden or Guy Lewis he had all of his fundamentals when he came into the league. Now the players come straight out of High school with more flaws and deficiencies in their game than ever before. In college you don?t just learn basketball but you also learn how to be a leader. And yes I really believe the college experience or lack of is plays a large part in what is wrong with the NBA today. Lets break down the Match ups: Magic vs. Kidd ? Kidds defense is way overrated. He is a great floor general that is great at getting people involved. Magic was a good defender, no PG in the game could post him up. Magic was the best passer I have ever seen including Kidd. Magic was also a great scorer?particularly in the 4th quarter. Kidd is a liability when his team needs someone to step up and take the big shot. In the last few minutes of a game when the game was on the line Magic?s decision making was flawless. Magic is the only player I have ever seen that would have been a hall of fame player at all five positions. Big edge to Magic Jordan vs. Kobe - Kobe is a great one on one player and a great defender. Kobe is good in the clutch and has the rings to back it up. Now you can say the exact same thing about MJ except multiply it times about 5. Even Phil Jackson said after the Lakers beat Indiana for the championship a couple of years ago that Kobe did not have the athleticism that MJ had?but then who does. Big edge to Jordan (come on he is the best that ever played) Bird vs. TMac ? TMac is a great shooter?Bird was the best ever. TMac is more athletic but Bird was much tougher, I remember seeing Bird lying on his back with a heating blanket on his back during time outs and then going back into the game. Bird might have been the smartest player I have ever seen. He could get into anyone?s head and completely demoralize them. Bird was mister clutch that was better at hitting the impossible clutch shot than even MJ. Bird was a very tough defender?if you don?t believe that then you should listen to Jordan or anyone else that played against him. Biggest Edge of all to Bird. Barkley vs. Duncan ? In 87 Sir Charles was The Man in the paint. He was a high scoring, high rebounding machine that could not be stopped. Duncan is much of the same as Barkley except he brings a some serious D and much better leadership than Chuck. Duncan also has the jewelry and Barkley doesn?t. Slight edge to Duncan Dream vs. Shaq ? In 87 Dream was also called the Nigerian Nightmare. No one in the league had a worse temper. But Dream may have also been the most athletic man in the game during the 80?s. Maybe Jordan was better?maybe. Dream was easily the best defender in the game at the time and would be today, Shaq does not even compare. Dream was the only man that I have ever seen that could come out of the paint to defend a shooter go back into the paint after that shooter passed back to Dreams man and then block his shot and still be the first man down the court on the fast break. Shaq is just plain big, strong and dominant. Shaq is the better scorer than Dream was at that time. Edge to Dream because he could do so much more than Shaq but it would be close. Overall, Big edge to the 87 squad. Kidd, Kobe and TMac would be completely overwhelmed by Magic, Bird and MJ.
