The idea is utterly laughable that foreigners would encourage Chinese students to be patriotic to their country. The much heralded tank photo only demonstrates two things: 1) PRC government was ill-prepared facing violent civil unrests, as there were no adequately-equipped (riot gears, rubber bullets, etc) police regiment nor professionally trained national guards available at the time; 2) despite all the odds stacked against them, PRC troops showed great amount of restraint in dealing with a few instigative criminals as well as misguided entangling mass, as evident by the fact the tank stopping fellow eventually came off unscathed. Imagine, at a slightly different place and/or time, even if the moron was not crushed like a cockroach by the incoming tanks, he would have been the one lying on the ground like this:
Well the one difference is how Kent State was handled after the massacre. and plz, don't post in this thread again. All you do is push everyone to either the left or right side of the line.
wnes swooping in to decree that China has never done any wrong ever and we are all a bunch of ignorant foreigners? quell my shock.
Trying to remember I came across this account (recap)- http://www.tsquare.tv/chronology/ PART TWO: 1989 April 15 Former Party General Secretary Hu Yaobang, deposed in 1987, dies of a massive heart attack. People began to gather in Tiananmen Square to commemorate Hu and voice their discontents. April 22 The official memorial service for Hu Yaobang is held in the Great Hall of the People. Demanding to meet with Premier Li Peng, three student representatives carry a petition and kneel on the steps of the Great Hall in front of the 100,000 students who have gathered in the Square the night before. Li Peng does not respond, and the students refuse to let minor officials pass on the petition. Angered by official apathy, students begin boycotting classes. April 26 The Communist Party newspaper People's Daily publishes an editorial accusing a "small handful of plotters" of stirring up student unrest and creating turmoil in order to overthrow the Communist Party and the socialist system. April 27 Ignoring warnings of violent suppression, students from more than 40 universities march to Tiananmen in protest of the April 26th editorial. May 4 Party General Secretary Zhao Ziyang, in a meeting with foreign bankers, makes a speech which in essence contradicts the April 26th People's Daily editorial. May 13 Several hundred students begin a hunger strike at Tiananmen Square in the afternoon. May 14 Second day of hunger strike. In the afternoon, elected student representatives charged with the responsibility for dialogue with the government begin formal talks with the government. The talks breaks down because the promised broadcast does not materialize. In the early evening, twelve of China's most famous writers and scholars present their emergency appeals at the Square, calling on the government to acknowledge the movement as a patriotic democracy movement and calling on the students to end their hunger strike. Their efforts fail. May 15 Third day of hunger strike. Gorbachev arrives in Beijing for the first Sino-Soviet summit since 1959. The government cancels plans to welcome Gorbachev at Tiananmen Square. May 18 Sixth day of hunger strike. Li Peng summons several student leaders for a televised talk at the Great Hall of the People. Nothing is achieved. [Full transcript of this televised meeting available.] The government prepares to declare martial law. May 19 Seventh day of hunger strike. The government's plan for martial law is leaked to student leaders, who call off the hunger strike and declare a mass sit-in. The Independent Workers Union (IWU) is founded at Tiananmen Square. In an evening speech, Premier Li Peng calls for "firm and resolute measures to end the turmoil swiftly." [Full text of speech available.] May 20 The government formally declares martial law in Beijing, but the army's advance towards the city is blocked by large numbers of students and citizens. May 23 The troops pull back to the outskirts of Beijing. The Alliance to Protect the Constitution is set up in order to coordinate the actions of the various groups involved in the movement. May 24 The Defend Tiananmen Square Headquarters is set up. Chai Ling is named Commander-in-Chief. May 27 The Alliance to Protect the Constitution decides by a unanimous vote to recommend that the students end their occupation of the Square on May 30th. The resolution is announced at a press conference in the Square. May 28 The Defend Tiananmen Square Headquarters rejects the May 27th resolution to end the occupation of Tiananmen Square. [Read an account of the above events in Black Hands of Beijing, by George Black and Robin Munro.] Chai Ling gives a long interview to Philip Cunningham, an American journalist. A transcript of the complete interview in its original Chinese is available. May 30 The ten-meter-high Goddess of Democracy is unveiled. [Read more about the Goddess in Wu Hung's "Tiananmen Square: A Political History of Monuments" in Representations 35, Summer 1991.] June 2 At 5:00 pm, Liu Xiaobo, Hou Dejian, Zhou Duo and Gao Xin start a hunger strike in Tiananmen Square. June 3 Troops receive orders to reclaim Tiananmen Square at all cost. Around 10:00 pm, soldiers open fire on people who try to block the army's advance, as well as on those who are simply shouting at the troops. Tanks and armored personnel carriers move toward the center of the city. Many people in the streets are killed or wounded, including bystanders. June 4 Around 1:00 am, troops surround Tiananmen Square and await further orders. Around 4:00 am, the four men who began a hunger strike on June 2 negotiate with the troops to allow the students to leave the Square. Around 5:00 am, several thousand students, and their teachers and supporters leave the Square at gunpoint. [Read a detailed account of the night of June 3-4 in Black Hands of Beijing, by George Black and Robin Munro.] June 9 Deng Xiaoping, in a nationally broadcast television appearance, speaks to the commanders of the martial-law units. [Full transcript of his speech available.]
STOP!!!! no one here is defending Kent State. instead they're saying there are certain human rights that transcend nationality.
wnes is incapable of actually reading past the word "China". After that all discussion amounts to "you=ignorant", "china=great", and "chinese issues=american problems too", irrespetive of actual post content.
I had no idea the students were there that long before the troops started on them, my memory was it was a few days at most. comment to the Bao guy who said they'll always talk about tiannenmen in 1,000 years. China's history is filled with so many rebellions, protests, revolutions, it strikes me as odd that he would make this kind of statement if the assumption is that he's a learned person.
i dont see how the boxer rebellion had anything to do with free speech as much as it had to do with kicking out foreigners who exploited China.
6-9 will be a black mark on Deng's legacy, but he will still go down as one of the top five all time great leader in Chinese history when people talk about this period hundreds of years from now.
No, after all the baptization of freedom and democracy he's been entrenched in this country, hotballa emerged as Deng Xiaoping of China threads in D&D.
I had to look that up. Hilarious. No hard feeling wnes - in fact, I hardly ever care to comment on your china "discussions". But the Kent State analogy was pretty stupid.
It's hard to believe that it's been 18 years already, but the scenes were still vivid, although I wasn't in Beijing at the time. It was quite involved for students and civilians in Shanghai as well. 18 years after the event, lots of people already forgot about it. Some of them chose to forget, and some of them really don't care about it any more. The intention of most students involved were simply pursuing more freedom and a fair society. Just as any past movement, their passion and action were used by politicians. Zhao used it as bargain chip in the power struggle against conservatives, and Li and other strong conservatives used it as the excuse to crush the progressives, and they succeeded by getting Deng on their sides. General Chinese public doesn't have much faith in a fair system anyways, because we never really had one in the long history. They always look up to a few "bright" leaders, and follow them, be it Emperor or officials, someone high up with power, or someone can rally them around. The student movement was certainly lacking any leadership at the time, which is normal. But the actions of some "leaders" after the event, were very disappointing to say the least. As a result, the general public were easily misled. The question moves away from "why did the demonstration happen in the first place" to "do you really want such 'leaders' to take over your government", despite the fact that even the students "won", Zhao and other CCP members would take over power. Whenever the argument is shifted from system to person, no one can win, because all humans are equally bad. I have friends who know people lost lives in "6.4", those families are still mourning over those kids. But general public in China don't even know why and how they lost their lives, all they know was that those naive students were used by some "corrupted student leaders, politicians, and of course foreign anit-China activitists and governments". How sad is that? Meanwhile, some of the "student leaders" are opening up business in China, of course as American or Britain or French or Canadian citizens. Everything is profit driven in China now, as cruel as it may sound, I think it's much better than ideology-driven, because it's a huge step forward towards individualism from the empty promise for "a whole class or group". When individuals have personal belongings, they will start to worry about that and try to protect that. Naturally, people will start to pursue more protection and fair rules, and you have the need to voice your opinion. That is the gradual but certain way to democracy.
I am not saying foreigners are all ignorant -- although it may not be that far from the truth -- but they certainly don't have the same stake in the anarchy as hundreds of millions of Chinese do. While you guys could enjoy the mess as much as the next reality show, the Chinese themselves would have to live with the consequences of violent chaos -- the Baghdad of today multiplied by a thousand fold.
