1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

18 assists, MVP, Steve Francis and other Ramblings

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by crash5179, Nov 7, 2002.

  1. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    16,465
    Likes Received:
    1,290
    First of all I want to address the 18 assists that Gary Payton handed out Tuesday night. If everyone watches the game closely then we would all notice that Payton dished out a ton of assists to long range shooters. If Houston’s long range shooting had been as consistent then maybe Steve would have had much higher assist numbers as well. I am not trying to say that Steve is as good as Gary Payton when it comes to passing the ball but it sure helps when you consistently pass the ball to a group of long range sharp shooters. Dale Ellis, Detlef Schrempf, Brent Barry, Vladimir Radmanovic and Rashard Lewis are just a few of the sharpshooters that have played for Seattle over the years. How many times have we seen Steve pass the ball to someone wide open on the perimeter only to watch the ball clank of f of the back of the iron? Once again I am not saying that Steve distributes the ball as good as Rashard but it is something to think about. After all Gary Payton did not even avg. more than about 6 assists a game until after his 4th season.

    Is MVP a possibility for Steve Francis? I know 4 games is not nearly enough to start a serious campaign but what if Francis is still averaging 30pts, 10rbds, 6assists and 1 block a game after a couple of months? Those numbers are not supposed to be possible for a 6’3” point guard. Don’t slam me for saying this but those are Larry Bird type of numbers. If the Rockets make the play-offs and Francis continues to put up numbers like those then how can he not be considered a front runner? Steve Francis has clearly moved his game up a couple of levels so far this year. Last year I would have said that there is not a lot of difference between Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley but he has clearly moved beyond Cat’s game…for now. I guess we will see how long Steve’s production continues at this rate.

    The match up I can’t wait to see in a couple of weeks is Kwame Brown and Eddie Griffin. Kwame put up some gaudy stats in a couple of games but has tapered off since. Eddie has been very consistent, no real gaudy numbers but he seems to be getting a little better with each passing game. I think once time filters out the 18 and 14 rebound games with some more of the 8, 7 and 6 rebound games that Kwami has had then his numbers will be very similar to Eddie’s. Other than rebounds their numbers are almost identical.

    Some people are already calling Yao Ming a bust and Rudy T a failure. I just don’t buy it. We all saw the great offensive moves that Yao Ming displayed in the home opener, that is why Rudy T drafted him. Once he learns how to position himself in the post as well as getting use to the speed of the game then I say he has the tools to dominate. I believe that Yao Ming will be great.
     
  2. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    15,511
    Likes Received:
    599
    You have some good moints, but i would like to offer something to you. Ask any shooter how and when they like to recieve the ball. 9 of 10 will tell you they like recieving the ball in some kind of flow. All of the shots they were making during that span was coming from payton in a flow and early in the offense. Its hard for a shooter of any kind to go minutes without touching the ball, ask glen Rice. Ask Reggie Miller,Dale Ellis or any rhythm. The way the Rockets have 2 players dominating and dribbling the ball while the others are just standing around, its very hard for a shooter to get in a flow. If you noticed how payton would get the ball above the defensive ft line and run the ball up the court and pass to the guy running for open uncontested 12ft jumpers was exaclty the kind of offense the rockets can run. When they did push it up and Rice received the ball he caught and shot it in a flow for a 3pt shot. The Rockets sluggish or no running game also came be attributed to Francis's greatest strength, rebounding. I would really like to see Francis stay above the ft line more on defense and recieve the ball and push it hard. A rebounding pg can be the best source of a running game if he know what to do with it. If francis gets the rebound , pushes hard up the court looking for guys runnng, he could get 8 asst easy and the offense could get easy baskets. What normally happens is Francis gets the rebound, looks around and skips up one side instead of in the middle of the floor. Its still early and if he does keep his numbers up and the team is within top 4 teams in the league, then he is a candidate.
     
  3. SmeggySmeg

    SmeggySmeg Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 1999
    Messages:
    14,875
    Likes Received:
    119
    Great Post Crash, you are the great white hope :D

    The key question is were the jumpers missed on Steve (or the offense) creating the opening for the shooter who missed. The standard pass and the defense slacking off and the shooter getting the J is not my concern, these for me are the cheap ones.

    Payton makes the dribble penetration for one to two dribbles and then kicks to the shooter for the J and when you think about the shooters the Sonics have had that you listed he probably has get a few more, because of his big effort to make this move.

    so really there are two things for Steve and the rockets, does Steve look to break his player done with one to two dribbles draw some help and kick to the open shooter, the second is can the Rockets knock them down, and this is what we need to get better at, you would think we have the personnel to knock them down, Cat, Rice and then in the future Mo and Ming.

    Kwame and Eddie will be nice to watch, Kwame really has gone to school in the offseason and actually really improved has bball IQ, some of the stories written last year said he had physical attributes but not the intelligence and knowledge of the game, will Eddie have the Strength to match it with him, but you would feel Eddie would have the speed advantage.

    As for Steve for MVP, this really is a pipe dream unless the Rockets had a seriously good record, I would have to think a 50 win season would be the minimum for him to even be in consideration, the other point is do you think he will average 30 ppg with Mo back and Kenny finding his game (think it has slipped behind the back of the couch :) )

    Ming needs time, someone else suggested IL for a rest and maybe that would be a good thing, the dude has been playing bball for a couple of years straight.
     
  4. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2000
    Messages:
    8,325
    Likes Received:
    78
    Payton has a lot of great long range shooters to raise his assist level?

    Career 3 point %ages:

    Barry - 40.1
    Lewis - 39.1 (20.0 this season)
    Radmanovic - 41.3

    If this is the case, the Rox should have kept Walt Williams.

    The answer is deeper than that. It's like leebigez said - rhythm. Look at how much Barry's % jumped when he joined the Sonics. Look at Walt and Langi's %ages this year.

    How often have we watched Steve pass the ball to an open perimeter player? Not often enough to prove whether they can shoot or not. Peja Drobnyak plays 22.8 minutes/ game and has taken more shots than any Rocket not named Francis or Mobley and 4 fewer than Eddie Griffin.

    Will Francis be an MVP candidate with his current numbers if the Rockets make the playoffs? IMO, if he continues to put up those kind of numbers the Rockets won't make the playoffs. There's a reason Glen Rice is calling for the ball.
     
    #4 GATER, Nov 8, 2002
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2002
  5. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    20,464
    Likes Received:
    488
    That's the first non-insulting thing you've said about Glen Rice. It is <b>not</b> an insult, right? :)
     
  6. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2000
    Messages:
    8,325
    Likes Received:
    78
    Absolutely not an insult. I root for all Rockets...they're my favorite team and have been for over 20 years. :)

    I am positive that they are all fine human beings off of the court and I don't root against any Rocket - not even Collier. However, IMO being a "fan" does not mean overlooking (what I perceive to be) poor managerial decisions or a players' on court methods.

    Consider me "Old School" - I like ball movement and defense and firmly believe that's what it will take to win another championship. When I see it lacking on the Rox, it frustrates me and probably colors the tone of my posts.

    There is a criticism that the Rockets (other than Mobley & Francis) are not good shooters so why pass them the ball? For the same reason Gary Payton started the second half by getting Peja Drobnjak the first shot of the half.

    Drobnjak is a center shooting 43.9% for the season and was 0 for 5 in the first half. It's important to get a player involved and get them shots in rhythm. That's why Peja hit his next 4 in row and that's what Rice was talking about in another thread..and I agree with him.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now