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11.3 vs. 8.9

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by wizkid83, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Contributing Member

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    Russell Westbrook Ast #'s with home score keepers vs. #'s with Away Score keepers. Almost 27% higher at home vs. on the road.

    James Harden? 10.6 at home vs. 11.8 on the road. Actually 10% lower at home.

    Saying give Russell Westbrook the MVP for doing something that hasn't been done since Oscar Robinson is basically given Westbrook the MVP having favoritism in score keeping.

    #NotMyMVP


    P.S. He is a great player with a great season, but I'd still give JH the trophy.
     
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  2. SK34

    SK34 Member

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    or maybe his teammates make more shots at home and suck when playing away like most people do.
     
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  3. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    So Ryan Anderson is responsible for Harden's low home assist totals.
     
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  4. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    Maybe Rockets score keepers should have added a couple rebounds to James Harden during every home game
     
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  5. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    didn't Davis have like 2 more blocks at home than away one year?

    So, are we talking about FAKE STATS!
     
  6. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Yep. OP, compare the team wide field goal efficiency splits for OKC vs HOU. Not saying Westbrook isn't helped out some by the home team stats crew, but there are other explanations for this.
     
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  7. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Contributing Member

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    The 10% higher road assist that Harden exhibits could be explained by that variance. Ryan Anderson shoots better on the road, team shoots 10% (relative 41% to 37% absolute) higher from the 3 on the road, which is were a lot of Harden's assist comes from.

    But for the Thunder, where they only shoot 10% better at home FG (47% to 43%), 15% better at home from three (34.5% vs. 30%), the 27% difference suggests something beyond just his team making more shots at home.

    Even accounting for 1.7 min more pg at home vs. road (~5%), Russell might still get anywhere from 0.5 to 1 more assist per game due to more favorable stat keeping. He's averaging 10.1 apg, that extra 0.5 is what separate him from a good season on a 6th seed to an MVP season by averaging a number previously thought impossible.
     
  8. Major

    Major Member

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    Or maybe there are any number of other reasons - like he enjoys showing off the home crowd more so he handles the ball more or whatever else. If 10% of his assists at home are fake, it should be easy to just watch a bunch of games and point out all the fake assists he gets.
     
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  9. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Contributing Member

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    I don't think they're just giving him random assist, but that he's more likely to get the 50/50 calls at home.
    For him to be just having another great statistical season (i.e. not Triple-Doubles), he just need two assist out of 100 to not be completely earned.

    I just typed in "Westbrook full assist highlights last few games" into search engine and looked at the top few results. Here are three of them - all games from the past week.

    http://www.nba.com/thunder/video/highlights-westbrook-170113/
    First highlight, Oladipo caught the ball, got doubled, pump faked and then shoot after splitting. Westbrook got him the ball in good position, but the pass did not directly lead to the shot.

    http://www.nba.com/thunder/video/highlights-westbrook-assists-170107/
    First highlight, (this one is close and you can argue giving it to Westbrook) but he got Oladipo the ball at almost the 3 point line, who took a dribble then made a tough lay-up. It was really Oladipo's driving ability in the open court and juking the defender that lead to the score, not necessarily the pass.

    http://www.nba.com/thunder/video/te...89125279404-170309-westbrook-vs-spurs-1280395
    Highlight at 1:01. (Once again, this one is close and you can argue giving it to Westbrook), Westbrook did start the break but it was the move Roberson put on at the end of the play that lead to the bucket.

    My OP was somewhat troll-ish (it was based off of more from listening the other day to either True-hoops/or Lowepost Podcast where some one said he might be getting some favorable home calls)

    Just want to point out that:
    • Only .15 assist/game (1.5/100) would disqualify him averaging a triple double, which is the only thing that is putting him over Harden.
    • It's not absurd to think that 1/20 of assist he records at home would have not be counted on the road.
    • If Harden is gonna lose the MVP due to WB averaging a triple double, I'd really like for WB to really earn the triple-double
    Lastly,
    Can't a Rockets fan claim some alternative facts? Bah, maybe it doesn't matter since Kawhi is now going to win it.
     
    #9 wizkid83, Mar 14, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
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  10. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    If things stay the same I just do not see how Harden does not win. I have more confidence in him winning then 2 seasons ago.
     
  11. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    The League office reviews all the games and regularly makes corrections to the stats. Back in the 80's I remember a Rocket (McCray, maybe?) losing a triple double the day after the game because they took an assist away.
     
  12. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    I think Westbrook will win, and it won't even be close. I think it's much easier for voters to find excuses for not voting for Harden than for Westbrook.
     
  13. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    Ryan Anderson shoots 32% from 3 and 77% from the line at home. But 47% and 92% on the road.

    Fake stats. The road scorers aren't tallying all of his shots so that the Rockets think he is playing well. They are holding us back.
     
  14. kevC

    kevC Contributing Member

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    Clearly the home stats keeper aren't counting his 3 pointers and FT's as good. #conspiracy
     
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  15. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    People, this is called Alternative Stats! :cool:
     
  16. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Contributing Member

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    This was a few years back.
    http://dailythunder.com/nba-scorekeepers-inflated-stats-and-the-thunder/

    and the article it the above page referenced

    http://deadspin.com/5336974/an-assist-for-nick-van-exel-how-an-nba-scorekeeper-cooked-the-book


    Once again, by looking at the almost 40 assists from his 3 recent games, I believe majority of the Westbrook's were duly earned. However, even from just looking at the 3 games, we can see about 3 that's arguable (with the first example I pointed out as one where I really don't think is an assist). Even if we just say only that one that's questionable, that's still ~2.5%/.25 assists extra.

    It's just frustrating that in a season where Harden is also averaging 29/11/8 on a much better team, the main argument for WB is that he's having that extra .1 assist above the arbitrary cut off of 10, and that the reason that he might be able to be above that arbitrary mark can be result of biased human judgment.

    Side note: He just had a 19 assist game on the road, against the Brooklyn nets, which will push his avg assist to 10.2......I blame Jeremy Lin :p
     
    #16 wizkid83, Mar 15, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  17. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    Is this a joke? These are standard assists and I honestly can't even comprehend why you would argue. Especially the last two, where Westbrook dishes it to players who are on the move and and who directly finish with the layup in the same running motion.

    You either don't know the rules at all are ar a level of bias out of this world. And if these are the best examples you could find with a quick search, you should rest your case.

    http://videorulebook.nba.com/rule/assist/
     
  18. Normalus

    Normalus Member

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    Surprise surprise.
     
  19. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    illuminati strikes again
     
  20. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Contributing Member

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    I've always stated the last two were probably assists(I see the immediate reaction towards the basket even if there were changes in direction before the score) but did you not feel that continuity was broken in the first example ?

    These are not the best examples, just what I found within 15 min of searching and fast forwarding. Point is that with assists, there is a level of human subjectivity.
     

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