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#1 Nauseating Excuse for Not Passing the Ball to Yao

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by beyao, Jan 6, 2005.

  1. Daddy

    Daddy Member

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    this is the nba. its a game that the chinese struggle with because it the culture doesnt have that mentality. its a humble culture, which is nice when talking about humanitarianism, but not when talking about a sport that is aggressive and is a league that rewards people who want it most. so i wouldnt say that jvg trying to teach yao the way through an american philosiphy. i think if yao will embrace it he may learn a much needed lesson, he will succeed. this is a no nonsence, cutthroat business, and that is why many used to stay away from high schoolers and international players because they must learn what it takes before entering this league. but teams are now willing to take a chance by drafting skill over expirience because they hope that they will be able to learn their lessons in the nba, and they are desperate to find the next michael jordan or shaq in the draft. players like amare, kobe, lebron and novitski have given teams the courage to believe that it will happen. but it doesnt always work out.

    sometimes the best lessons are the ones that are hardest learned. you cant guarantee one is better than the other because niether have worked to this point, but reguardless of how the lesson is taught, it is still the same lesson he must learn.
     
  2. 12345

    12345 Member

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    Are you serious!? So according to you, all Chinese struggle in basketball because of their culture?
     
  3. Daddy

    Daddy Member

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    he wasnt demanding the ball, he was doing what he was taught and preparing for a possible pass.

    i remember a time when i hated my job, and i wanted a different one. but i was too lazy too go through the trouble of looking for one, so i stayed where i was and went through the motions that were expected of me. nobody was out there calling me and offering me a great job no matter how smart or skilled i was. i had to show interest beyond filling out an application. i had to show my future employers that i WANTED the position. i had to show them that they would be making a mistake if they didnt give me the job. i had to earn their trust that if they gave me an important role in their company, that i had the passion to help it succeed and not just go through the motion. i wanted the job, but nobody was going to give me a job just because i said i wanted it.
     
  4. Daddy

    Daddy Member

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    no, occording to chinese people, this is what they say. i only know what i am told and what i see, and because i have noticed that the chinese culture is a humble one that believes in respect and humility and not shaming others. i saw that the national team came down on yao for voicing his dissatisfaction for the way the team was playing, and i have decided that the opinion was a likely one. and and i see this in yao. he has a mentality that is almost like he wants score on you, but do it in a humble way.

    cockiness, pride and wanting to kick your opponant when they are down is not great character when talking about good people, but it is a mentality that works in sports to a certain extent. if you are not talented, and just fooling yourself by tring to do to much, it will hinder you. when you ARE that good, and are expected to show that every night, being a little cocky and egotistical is a good thing. michael jordan wasnt a bit apologetic when he put it on you because he wanted to be the best. i even heard one time that he stopped talking to a teammate after losing a simple game of pool. his not being a gracious loser was what drove him to be the best.
     
  5. rvpals

    rvpals Member

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    I thought basketball is a team sport. As a teammate, you pass to the guy most likely to score, your goal is to win as a team. Not put up 50 points yourself. I think being a teammate is good enough reason to get the ball when you're in good position. It all comes back to whether we have the necessary players to be a good team. I bet Yao will get the ball when he's supposed to if he was playing with Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson.

    Jabbar getting his balls all the time from Magic and other guys. Magic is the guy with the ball all the time. Jordan is supposed to get the ball all the time because he can simply score. Some of our guys can't even consistently shoot the ball.
     
  6. gotoloveit2

    gotoloveit2 Member

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    Whoever said Yao needs to DEMAND the ball otherwise he doesn't deserve it, is simpily stupid. Does Big Z need to demand the ball before King James would pass to him. Do every low post players in the league have to demand the ball when they have position. Simpily ridiculous.:rolleyes:
     
  7. boiler

    boiler Member

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    A lot of people say all these changing in coaching staff and players were just for Yao. I don't agree. Let me ask you this, do you really believe Les forced Rudy out, and brought in JVG just because of Yao? Did Les just trade Stevie for T-Mac to pass ball to Yao? Or did Les bring in any true point guard that could make a good entry pass to the post? Yeah, a lot of things happened to this team, but not everything was for Yao.


    The reality is when they made the T-Mac trade, they started to rebuild the team around T-Mac. There is no problem with that. T-Mac is an established superstar. You don't build you franchise around an unproved player with a proven superstar. However, for this team to be a legit contender, they need Yao to take him game to the next level.


    As for Yao’s problem, I truely believe right now Yao's success depends on Yao himself. The biggest problem for Yao now, IMHO, is his poise in the game. He is too easily affected by the poor officiating, missing shots, etc. He needs to keep focused and play HIS game every single minute whether things go his way or not. Never let anything distract you on the court. Keep shooting even you missed five in row, be aggressive no matter how many fouls you've got, if you're fouled out, you're fouled out.


    As for JVG's utilizing of Yao, I agree with some of Yao fans. JVG needs to play him consistently no matter how bad he is doing on the court, let him go through it and hope he figures it out. It may cost us some games, but it's necessary for Yao to tough up his mentality and build up his confidence.

    The T-Mac trade was done for long run, not for instant win. So be patient, I have faith in Yao and T-Mac and this team.


    Go ROX!
     
  8. gotoloveit2

    gotoloveit2 Member

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    May be JVG just needs to DEMAND our guards to pass the damn rock to Yao when he has position.:rolleyes:
     
  9. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    I notice TMac is NEVER the post entry passer. Phil Jackson said in his book that Shaq would never admit that Kobe was the best post entry passer on the Lakers.
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Welcome to the NBA.

    You guys seem to think that everyone should just do it because you think it is the right thing to do or because players are supposed to play nice.

    When Jabbar didn't get the ball, he would walk out of practice. When Magic posted up and they went away from him, he would tear the guy's head off. Bird was legendary for his locker room ripping of players. Jordan drove guys off the team with his competitiveness in practice. LeBron apparently is so fiery in practice, he routinely gets shouting matches with players he thinks aren't playing hard enough or getting him the ball.

    You guys can pretend all you like that the league should be different, but it isn't and it is time some of you wake up and realize that guys like Dream would scream at his teammates in the huddle to, "Pass me the GOD DAMN BALL!!!" for a reason.
     
  11. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    FREAKING YES!!!!! JEFF FROM THE CORNER....DRAINS IT!!!

    :D

    finally!!!! i'm on a freaking island over here!!! little help!
     
  12. Daddy

    Daddy Member

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    thats incinuating that

    1. a player should demand the ball to even receive a pass.

    2. that yao is clearly better at recieving a pass in the post than illgauskus.

    3. that other players should be compared to lebron in passing skill

    4. that yao ming is establishing good enough position to easily receive a pass in the right spot.

    5. that yao ming is a good enough ball handler to get a pass beyond a certain distance and can be counted on to put it on the ground to get closer.


    but if hes not getting the ball even though he clearly should be, and believes he should be, and nobody is doing anything about it....

    yeah, he might want to show some leadership and demand the ball. demand it from the players. go to the coach and demand that he give you the ball. you either settle for what life gives you or you strive for better because you refuse to settle.
     
  13. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Let me just say something here.

    Like it or not, a HUGE measure of how well a player is respected in this league by players, coaches, GM's, referees, etc. is his skill, his strength and his agressiveness. Players are respected for their ability to impose their will upon the game and force their way, particuarly when they are being held down.

    It is the reason why teams tend to improve when coaches or players get technicals during a game. It is the reason why players respect guys who throw punches or who push back when pushed.

    In life, it sucks. If I met a guy on the street like that, I'd walk the other way and never look back.

    In professional sports, it is kill or be killed, fight or get beaten down. It may not be the most admirable quaility in the world, but it is fueled by confidence, skill and competitiveness. It's the same reason why players often get depressed when they leave the game or former athletes bet $20,000 on one putt in a charity golf game. It is about getting over on others - about winning.

    Not the most pleasant human quality, but a trait athletes must have if they are going to stake their claim as the best of the best.

    Trying to ignore that or trying to pretend it doesn't exist is just not facing the reality. And, Yao must learn to add some of these traits to his personality or he will never be among the greats to play the game no matter how good a person he is off the floor and no matter how skilled he is on it.
     
  14. Daddy

    Daddy Member

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    you mean like tim duncan and david robinson??

    thats like mommy and daddy holding your hand. at some point he is going to have to step up. i dont believe in forcing someone to be a superstar. i believe they earn that. i have seen talented players like kwame brown and tyson chandler never quite cut it, and i have seen talented players like steve nash earn their right by going from bench player to superstar.
     
  15. daoshi

    daoshi Member

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    Jeff is right on target on this one. Unless you get someone like Kidd, or Stockton to distribute the ball, guys won't give up the rock! (they are established stars who don't look for their shots as much).

    You can talk about all the craps about "basketball is a team sports", but at the end, each play plays for his contract, and his next contract usually depends on his stats. I. Thomas said it the best, "The Coaches and GMs always tell you to sacrify the individual stats for the good of the team, but when they sign your next contract, that's all they talk about".

    So unless you get a big-time coach who can control every player, or a floor general like Stockton/Kidd, you have to demand the damn ball to get it. I'm afraid Yao will never be able to do that, it's just not in his blood.
     
  16. beyao

    beyao Member

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    This is basically my point...I don't think Yao will do this to his teammates within the next couple of years. At least not until he feels like somewhat of a veteran in this league. So the question is...Do we trade him because he can't make his teammates pass him the ball? Or do we bring in a coach who can make his team play the right way?

    I believe if Yao finishes the season still averaging 12 shots per game, and we don't do something miraculous like make it into the second round, one of these two things will have to happen. Who knows...our hand may be forced if Yao decides to re-up for just one season.
     
  17. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Great. Now we're back to it being Patrick's fault. lol. :) One of the 50 best that had a pretty good game and if it hadn't been for a guy named Olajuwon, would've been quite possibly the best center of his era. Yeah, sorry, I don't see him rubbing off on Yao. :)
     
  18. boiler

    boiler Member

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    As bad as some folks think yao is playing now, he is still much better than Kwame brown and tyson chandler, and more important, he is still a big part of Rox's future. By playing him through difficult suitations can only help his development. He may or may not turn into the player we all expect him to be, but ROX has to have faith in him until they total give up on him.
     
  19. beyao

    beyao Member

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    The good prospect of trading Yao is that I don't think he'd screw us like he could...that is re-up for one year and refuse a sign-and-trade by not agreeing to a long term deal with another team.

    Looking at the possible trading partners Yao would approve, along with getting rid of MoT...I think we could get Odom / Mihm (LAL) or Weber / Miller (Sac) or Richardson / Foyle (GS)...any of these transactions would surely make us a better running team, and still, most likely, a better half court team than the Suns. However, it's still not my preference.
     
  20. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Jeff, good stuff in this thread!
     

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