Agree on the AG bet over EGo. I think ideally, you find a way to balance out the roster with a really top level shooter, perhaps via the buyout market.
*31% from 3 *Playing in the LEAST (which actually bumps his stats by 25% due to all sad sack teams *Being injury prone and his high flying dunks always a bad landing away from season ending injury *Being an inefficient scorer (51.6% TS last year) Those arent really opinions those are facts. Just think he is only 24 yrs old if he is as good as you say why will Orlando give him up for random picks and EG/Tucker? You focus too much on what he can do (playmaking, defense) but not what he can't (3 pt shooting, spacing, efficient scoring). If AG gets here he will be the 3rd or 4rth guy on the pecking order after Cousins, Wall and Harden. He wont have the ball in his hands to take advantage of his ball handling skills and when he does get the ball he needs to score to make it count. AG is not a good finisher, 51% TS means he cant finish efficiently even if he aint shooting 3s. He only took 3-4 threes a night but his efficiency is horrible for a 2 pt scorer. WB had a higher TS% than him last year and nobody will say WB finished amazingly last year. And AG did it in the East, where he met crap teams like NO, Wizards, Hawks etc to pump his stats. If he in the West he gonna post worse stats. You make fun of EG for shooting like crap in the playoffs but he shot 32% from 3 in the playoffs this year, 1% higher than your boy's regular season 3 pt%. So the worst shooting EG has ever done in the playoffs is still better than AG's shooting lol. AG just isnt a good fit, maybe if the Rox blow it all up we can get him cuz he is only 24 and much better as a rebuilding piece than 30 yr old EG and 35 yr old Tucker.
EG playoff 3 pt 32% from 3 AG regular season 31.5% from 3 EG Playoff TS 53% AG regular season TS 51.5% EG eFG in the playoffs 49.1% AG eFG regular season 48.4% EG opponents in playoffs Lakers, OKC AG opponents in regular season Hornets, Wizards, Hawks EG losing it in the playoffs still better than AG having it in the regular season. AG may be skilled defensively but he isnt skilled offensively. Skilled means being efficient. If the ball dont go in the hoop how tf can you say you are skilled?
Fair warning, you are out of your depth debating AG with me. I actually watch him and the Magic on the regular. Jeff Green also averaged 32% from 3 for his NBA career. He is the best comp to how AG would be used with Rockets. Jeff Green averaged 35% from 3 with the Rockets in Regular Season and 42% from 3 in Postseason. AG, like Uncle Jeff, would see his 3P% improve due to the wide open looks from 3 due to Harden's gravity + Rockets 5 Out offense. This past season, AG did average 31% from 3 but the last 2 seasons he averaged 34% from 3. Your 25% adjustment is Trumpian BS. We can discuss basketball without you inserting a made up number fabricated from your imagination. Magic do play in the East but it is the Magic's offensive system and not the Conference that inhibits AG. Magic offense clutters the paint due to the number of bigs that play with AG (Vucevic, Aminu & Jonathan Isaac now and Vuc, Ibaka & Biyombo previously). AG has been forced to play out of position at SF for most of his career. Magic are trying to transition to more of space and pace system but currently lacker the spacers (players that can consistently hit from 3). AG is less injury prone than EGo. That is a fact. Jeff Green's TS was 52% with the Jazz and 68% with the Rockets in 2019-2020. Eric Gordon's TS was 51.0% with the Rockets last season. Yes, and your facts woefully lack context or even proper comparison. Tucker is unnecessary in an AG only trade so that is a misrepresentation. And yes, AG is very young but Isaac is younger and they both play the same position. Moreso, Magic drafted ANOTHER 4 in the 2019 draft, Chuma Okeke, who they stashed and have signed to play THIS season. In addition to AG at the 4, Magic have Jonathan Isaac (DPOY caliber talent), Chuma Okeke, Gary Clark and Al-Farouq Aminu as well. The Magic are simply loaded with young 4's and Jonathan Isaac has supplanted AG as the Magic's franchise player. With Houston, AG will play his natural position, the 4. And being 3rd or 4th option is the perfect role for AG. I have ZERO doubt that Harden will weaponize AG like he did for Chandler Parsons, Clint Capela, Kenneth Faried, Jeff Green, etc. Your ratiocination is extremely flawed. Your conclusion is biased due to your extreme lack of knowlege of the Magic. AG is an excellent finisher and improving 3ball shooter, but his mid range game is poor. Further, in the Rockets system, AG would eliminate all mid range attempts increasing his efficiency JUST LIKE RUSS eliminated most of his 3ball attempts to increase his efficiency. Rockets analytics, remember? AG did not play in postseason, due to injury in the bubble. Opposite of EGo who missed most of regular season but was healthy enough by playoffs. But in previous postseason, AG shot 40% from 3 while EGo shot 32% this past postseason, 40% previous postseason and 33% in the postseason that Rockets had a championship caliber team. EGo shot 31.7% from 3 in regular season in a 5 Out wide open offensive system being the 3rd or 4th option (not the focal point of any opposing team) while AG shot 30.8 from 3 while being the 1st or 2nd option in a far less wide open offense friendly system and definitely a focal point of opposing team's defense. If Jeff Green was a good fit for the Rockets (which he was and we all wanted him re-signed, including the Rockets FO) then AG would be a GREAT fit because their roles would be comparable and AG is the more catalytic player vs. Uncle Jeff. Better rebounder, better defender, better finisher, better rim protector, better disruptor, better playmaker and I am arguing will have similar 3ball improvement that Jeff experienced. We can talk AG all day if you want, but you need to do your due diligence better than this.
Jeff Green was an amazing player for the Rockets, and he fit the system to a T. However Aaron Gordon is nowhere near JG the only thing they have in common is they are both 6'8. JG has never been a primary or even secondary ball handler in his career, and his playstyle is more as a natural SF than PF meaning he is more perimeter oriented. AG is more of a PF, he wants to be on the paint more than on the perimeter, he is also a more aggressive and needs a fast pace and a clear lane to score in transition. Their games have some overlap but are def not identical so I don't know why you keep making JG as AG's mold here on the Rockets. The guy you should compare AG to is WB not JG. All the things you said about pace, tertiary ball handler and scoring in transition applies to WB more than JG. Btw Jeff Green doesn't average 32% for his career, he averages 33.4% from 3 and has had 2 seasons where he shot 38% or higher prior to the Rockets. He is a vastly superior shooter to AG with a lot more sample size. Saying because Jeff Green improved from 35% to 42% means AG will too is just fabricated from your imagination, just like my next post. Sure 25% is a made up number but any cursory analysis of East and West teams will tell you East players have pumped up stats compared to West teams. Do you deny that? We all know East teams fight each 3-4 times a season but only fight West teams 2 times a season. Now look at the Roster of East vs West only 4 teams in the East are pretty good the rest would have been lotto teams in the West. Just compare it Portland Trailblazers who were the 8th seed in the West would be what seed if they played in the East? Guarantee they would beat Orlando and Nets without KD and Kyrie. Jrue Holiday was an all star in the East but became just a starter in the West. If Irving had played in the West I doubt he would have even 1 all star to his name today. West just has more stars and is tougher because of it. Minny had the 2nd worst record at only 19 wins but if they in the East do you think Wizards would beat them in a 7 game series? Wizards had 25 wins in the Least and just barely missed the playoffs. LOL EAST is a joke that's why all East player nos are inflated. I agree. But then again EG is 30 and on the tail end of his career. If you ask me a EG vs AG swap I'd do it just so we can get younger and have better assets moving forward. Sure my facts may lack context but you don't even have any facts. Just cuz JG blossomed in the Rockets system doesn't mean AG will too lol wtf. They aren't the same person by that logic Lou Williams should have shot 60% 3 pt in the Rockets system and we all know how he played here. You said it yourself EG was injured the regular season and then only became healthy in the playoffs. So he was injured it's not surprising his efficiency would be bad. But guess what injured EG is shooting at AG level, now that's funny AF. You are right and personally I'd do the trade as well, just for the assets. Tucker is mad AF anyway he prob won't resign for next season we losing him. Still doesn't answer why Orlando will trade AG to Houston for 2 random picks and 2 vets who don't want to be on a losing/rebuilding team. Ok Magic is loaded with young 4s but if AG is as good as you say why can't other teams use him? Other teams aren't loaded at 4 for example OKC has a bajillion picks and all that capspace, they can totally use a 24 yr old PF stud to help their rebuild process. All those play differently and how they got weaponized are different too. You may as well say Harden will weaponize AG like he weaponized Maclemore cuz the gap between Maclemore and AG is smaller than the gap between Faried and Parsons. You are right. But I can only look at what I got which is the data on his shooting history and efficiency. Zion is an elite finisher, his TS% is 62%. You can't claim AG is an excellent finisher when his TS% is 51%. This isn't rationalization this is just ignoring the reality of the situation. MAYBE if AG cut down all his mid range shots his efficiency and finishing ability will improve. Or maybe he won't know how to score. What I do know is you can't call him an elite or excellent finisher with numbers like that. It's not an aberration either, all his TS% his entire career is in the low 50s. That's like somebody claiming Dwight is an excellent 3 pt shooter. He is only 24 and has all the time in the world to be much, much better but it's all potential right now. Lol I thought you said Orlando's system is what is hurting AG? How come he suddenly shot 40% in the "sucky" Orlando system? Ok so when his shooting is great it's due to his own ability but when his shooting sucks it's due to the Orlando system. I got it. AG may have shot 40% that one time in the playoffs but if you look at his career nobody will say he is a good 3 pt shooter, with multiple season shooting in the 20s~ range. I rather believe the multiple year sample size than the one time in playoffs which lasted 5 games. Jeff Green was great cuz he was only making 3M a year, if he made 18M a year with that kind of production people would have gotten on his ass so I don't think talking about JG 2.0 is a good argument. Ryan Anderson for example was a decent player in a vacuum but because he took so much capspace he became the Rox's fav whipping boy. I think it's pointless, just cuz if Stone can get AG for two random picks and EG/Tucker it would be one of the best ripoff trades in recent memory. Don't get me wrong I would do the EG/Tucker for AG trade in a heartbeat regardless whether AG fit in or not. Am just saying 1 I don't see it, and 2 he doesn't fit in based on what he currently is.
If you spend some time in his shooting stats, you will mostly come away hopeful regarding AGo. It’s all about role and what we will ask him to do. First let’s look at his shot distribution. Over his career, about 22% of his shots have come from midrange, which would easily be the highest number on the Rockets besides John Wall (who I think will also shoot significantly less long 2s in Houston). I am fairly certain that would get almost completely eliminated as the 3rd or 4th option with Houston. Where would his midrange shots go? Likely 50/50 to under the basket and 3s. From zero to 3 feet, he hits 70%, so he’s an elite level finisher around the basket...no surprise. My best guess is his shot distribution would go from 46/22/32 to something like 55/0/45. Now with Gordon, the type of 3s matter. What he can’t do is hit contested, off the dribble or pull-up 3s. HOWEVER, he’s not bad at most of the types of shots we’d ask him to take: Corner 3s 17/18 - 36.8% 18/19 - 40.2% 19/20 - 33.3% Catch and shoot 3s 17/18 - 39.2% 18/19 - 36.5% 19/20 - 32.5% 0 Dribble 3s 17/18 - 38.8% 18/19 - 35.8% 19/20 - 31.5% 1 Dribble 3s 17/18 - 25.7% 18/19 - 36.1% 19/20 - 40.0% <2 second touch 3s 17/18 - 38.1% 18/19 - 36.0% 19/20 - 32.4% I am not saying he’s a great shooter. What I am saying is that he appears to be an average 3 point shooter in certain situations, and all of those situations seem to point to the same thing: open catch and shoot 3s, especially from the corner.
@D-rock In light of PJ’s IG post this morning, yeah...we are definitely shopping him. I think his fate is intimately tied into Hardens. If we go with the Simmons package, I don’t want AG. Would rather trade PJ to the highest bidder and start fresh with Simmons, Thybulle and a mountain of picks.
When I said you could do better, I obviously overestimated you. This was a rambling mess. You have no clue what you are talking about, you just do not have a grasp on the data that I or @finsraider provided you.
Simmons, Thybulle and multiple FRP are the priority for certain. But I would double down with EGo + FRP for AG if the opportunity was there. While his game would not be perfect alongside Simmons, I still believe he would be a better player and asset in Rockets system. If used like you and i have detailed, 5 Out + eliminating mid range, his efficiency and value would increase enough that Rockets could bring back another star in near future. And he is still only 25.
So one path forward I can see.... 1) trade PJ for the best pick you can get. 2) trade Harden for Simmons, Thybulle and picks. Then in a year, when Beal demands out, leverage his relationship with Wall, and trade Gordon, House and the said mountain of picks for Beal. Wall Beal Thybulle Simmons Wood I do think AGs value would go up just by getting out of Orlando, but yeah...the fit with Simmons isn’t great. Might rather give EGo a shot to improve his value and keep the picks.
Yeah, I'm done with EGo. If Harden is traded, then may as well blow it ALL up. His passive aggressive complaints about his role when he has shat the bed 2 of last 3 seasons is more than enough for me. And I was one of his biggest defenders since he was signed.
i think there’s at least a chance EGos season was a result, in part, of playing with Westbrook. There’s a chance he fits better with Wall. Given that he does have negative trade value, I think it’s best to ride out his contract if Harden is out. full rebuilds sound nice, but it’s all about optimizing value. Trading positive assets like PJ and Harden make sense. Trading negative assets like EGo don’t. my ultimate goal is to get 2 stars out of all these moves. Simmons is one, and a mountain of picks puts you in position for another. Thybulle and Wood are good starts as far as role players. The only reason you do the AGo trade after the Simmons/Harden swap is if you think you can get his value up enough to flip for a star later on, and again...the fit issue. I’m optimistic about EGo. I think the skills are still there, and I’m interested to see what Silas can get out of him.
The one, and only advantage to trading Harden...the need to build your entire defensive game plan and roster to account for his deficiencies goes away, especially if Simmons steps into his role. We would have the potential to be an elite defensive team
The basic message was they don’t appreciate me and “Houston you’ve got a problem”. My position is pretty clear at this point. If Harden recommits, you give Tucker his extension and trade EGo for A Gordon. If he doesn’t, you trade Harden and Tucker for the best assets you can get. I’m not doing anything else for Harden until he shows he’s fully on board via an extension. If he doesn’t want to commit, we probably go with a middle ground, keep him and Tucker at least until the deadline.
They need to move him. Go all out for Aaron Gordon. Play him at SF. Dude has def. And he rebounds like crazy.
