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Stats in wins versus losses

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jopatmc, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Battier:
    In wins
    12.5 ppg, 49% from the field, 46% from 3, 5.8 boards, 1.7 assists
    In losses
    5.9 ppg, 32% from the field, 26% from 3, 4 boards, 3.2 assists in 4 less minutes per game

    ....what this tells me......

    We are better off when Battier takes more shots and defers less to others (3.2 assists in losses versus 1.7 assists in wins). Battier should look for his shot before he passes.

    The other big contrasts on this team:
    Scola.......he should look to work the low post and draw fouls down there. It increases our chances of winning drastically.

    Lowry......needs to play big minutes for us to have a chance to win. And he has to look to take a few more shots at the rim and rebound aggressively. When he plays low minutes and when he is not aggressive taking the ball to the hole and shooting it, our chances of winning goes down drastically.




    These are the three biggest statistical contrasts on this team. You could almost say...when Shane plays great, we win, when Shane plays poorly, we lose. You could basically say the same thing for Lowry.



    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=976
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=1781
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=3012
     
  2. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I draw a slightly different conclusion. We win when our SF does suck monkey balls. Time to get Melo.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    When we hit our shots we win, when we miss them we lose.

    DD
     
  4. LCII

    LCII Contributing Member

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    ^ That.
     
  5. NewBigThree09

    NewBigThree09 Member

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    we have more points than opponent team, we win.
    or else..... we lose...
     
  6. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Its more complicated than that.

    I really really really wish there was data similiar to hotspots for this year.

    For whatever reason, perhaps because Brooks is down and Lowry is playing point, shots are open for Battier at the elbow versus his comfort zone in the corner.

    It seems to me that Battier is still shooting at a decent clip from the corner, but not good at all from the elbow. I wish there was data out there to support this.
     
  7. choujie

    choujie Member

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    I don't agree with this point. To be a really good team, we need to win a fiar share even when our shots are not falling. There is a good chance you won't make a lot shots against good teams in playoffs. That's why we need more defense.

    So far Rockets defense hasn't been good enough to overcome bad shooting nights at all. And they couldn't win even with good shooting at the beginning of the season.

    Can't have enough defense with all the offensive weapons on this team. That's why AB + Martin starting together is not going to make Rockets elite.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I thought about this last night as well. While you could simplify it to what DD noted, I think you are on to something a little more statistically significant with Battier here. I.e. - we need a lot more out of his position generally. It was ok when his lack of offense was made up with defense...but he doesn't do that anymore.

    I'm generally against a trade for an established star or even potential superstar (Melo). I do not envision a scenario where the Rockets could surround Melo with more talent than he had with the best teams. Same with Iguodala, etc. In the offseason, I had the opposite view. But with Yao likely never to be back to form (for injury or other reason) and clearer deficiencies with the rest of the squad, I'm leaning more and more heavily to a quasi-rebuild effort.

    That said, this Battier/SF play disparity is jumping out. You'd obviously be getting a lot more out of the position if you trade for say AI.
     
  9. nnayak

    nnayak Member

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    yup I think the offense is creating good looks fairly consistently. Rarely do you see a rocket hit a contested shot. When they hit the open ones the effort on d is much better. Our transition d can be bad due to lack of athleticism which puts even more pressure on our shooters
     
  10. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

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    Also Battier played the best defense on Kobe in this game, which we have not seen it for two years.

     
  11. Arvid

    Arvid Member

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    Let's not confuse correlation with causality.
     
    3 people like this.
  12. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

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    So simple and yet so true. We live and die by the three, always have, always will....
     
  13. aggie87

    aggie87 Member

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    agreed, we are primarily a 3-point shooting team
     
  14. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    We dont have a lot of wins. In the few that we have, battier played really really well in 2. The stats in those 2 games weigh too much and inflate this stat.
     
  15. Someguy1229

    Someguy1229 Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    Could it be that Battier takes more shots when he has a higher number of better/easier shooting opportunities and take less when he has less such opportunities?
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    That's what it is. When does Battier attempt to score? Wide open 3s (bad defenses give up wide open 3s) or when he's got an undersized defender on him in the post (bad defenses tend to have undersized defenders guard him).

    There is something to say, though, about him looking to be more aggressive. When he has the open shot, he shouldn't hesitate. He could do with a little more Ron Artest in him.
     
  18. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    He also takes shots when the clock is running down and there's nothing decent available (so it's between him taking a bad shot, someone else taking a bad shot, or a shot clock violation).
     
  19. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Those two games were against Ok City and LAL. He was defending Durant and Kobe. And he put up those numbers. He used his shooting to help defend those guys cheating off him. That's further proof of my point. Yes, I do believe that the SF position is of primary importance right now with Yao and Brooks out. Yes, we need production out of that spot. And when we get it, we are much better. Yes, Iggy does on a nightly basis what Battier seems to do every 4-5 games.

    The point is....as Battier, Lowry, and Scola go, so goes the Rockets. At least right now, as long as Yao and Brooks are out. These are the three primary players. They have to play well for us to be able to win.
     
  20. PeppermintCandy

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    I don't think the stats really say that Battier should be taking more shots. According to basketball-reference.com, he's shot more than his average FGA (7.2) in 8 games so far. But surprisingly, we won just 3 of those games.

    On the other hand, Battier has been attempting more shots recently. In the past 9 games, Battier's FGA went up by a whopping 4 shots. (5.2 FGA the first 9 games, 9.2 in the past 9 games.) In the recent stretch, he's had five games where he attempted 10 shots or more. (Houston won two of those games.)

    I think the FGA increase is mainly because he's taking those shots that he would've passed up before. He's being more aggressive offensively because win or lose, it's what the team needs him to do with Brooks and Yao out.

    Personally, I do believe it's better for the team when Battier consistently looks for his offense, and not just the corner 3. Unfortunately, the small sample size of this season doesn't really reflect that belief. Not yet, at least.
     

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