I never ask myself that. I just ask myself how I can eat MORE effectively and MORE efficiently. Fruit sugar apparently does not work very well. I use your method too right now.
I never said all supplements are bad. I've taken no-xplode and protein powder myself. There is a place for vitamin supplementation. I'd have to say price and convenience are two major factors why people use supplements. It's much more convenient to pour some powder in a bottle than to cook some food. Also per gram, its got to be cheaper to buy protein powder than chicken breasts or red meat; doesn't mean its better for you. Look at professional athletes. You can read all about the 12,000 calorie diet Michael Phelps ate while training for the olympics. None of it was protein powder. He ate dozens of eggs per day and lb's of pasta but no protein powder. Professional football players rarely if ever use protein powder. Why? Because they have trainer's tables that provide a buffet table of food. Don't you think if protein powder were magically better than real food that football players were be instructed to drink that instead of going to eat a real meal? That's a billion dollar industry where having freakishly large size is tantamount to success. Real food is just better if you have the time/money.
Its not that a lot of them don't work in some way...it's that the average joe is taking what Ronnie Coleman is taking just so they can bench 250. I always have people asking me whats so special about my protein powder, as if i was taking powdered steroids. It's just protein, could have been egss, tuna, fish, etc....so i think what he's trying to say is that for the average person its not neccessary and not more beneficial than regular food. I dont think you've written what your goal is or where you're at now, so who knows if you're the average person or an amateur bodybuilder. I think the advice would be different in each case. Advanced lifters are looking for precision and more than just what the best protein is. They want stuff that'll swell up their veins, block fat gains, fast forward their recovery, among other things. It's like a science experiment with their bodies, necessary to be competitive, not so much to just lift on the side. You need to max out your natural potential first, then look for supplements to further that if you're not satisfied. A lot of people nowadays want to do it backwards because they forget it's called a supplement for a reason. It supplements what you already have going, it's not going to do all the work...so that's where it's getting out of hand.
I'm no expert but my body definitely likes some carbs right after a workout. I use muscle juice pre and post workout, its got loads of protein and complex/simple carbs. I also use straight whey protein. I was doing a shake of muscle juice pre workout and a whey protein shake post workout, but I would be super exhausted after the workout. Then I switched to a half whey half muscle juice mix for the post workout shake and the carbs from the muscle juice really help kill the exhaustion.
from that thread it appears as if maybe you dont respond well to sugars/simple carbs...most people with slow metabolisms dont...mine isn't slow, so that may be why i can get away with eating more of it...perhaps you should focus on more protein, good fats, and complex carbs and really limit your sugar and simple carb intake.
also, you need to take into consideration how tough your workout is..the workout itself will dictate how badly you need to recover or re-gain fuel.
I have no hate for hypocritical religious drug abusers. I can achieve naturally what you desire with pharmaceuticals.
Since that thread, I can tolerate simple carbs. Regardless though, I rarely have them. I'm only asking specifically for the purposes of a post work out shake. I want to maximize the effectiveness of the muscle recovery process, though I guess it's not the end of the world if this maltodextrose thing isn't true. The thing that bugs me is that is seems the best way to build muscle is to neglect the body fat, and then cut the fat in another cycle. I'm traumatized by being chubby my whole life so the thought of putting fat on and easily taking it off is scary. From the looks of it, I'm going to go a very healthy route which is essentially eat as close to organic all the time as I can afford, low glycemic, but with a highly effective post work out shake being the exception. I feel like I'm stagnating. I'm lifting more, but it's not showing much and fatigue is starting to creep in. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.
See, that's where i was getting at by asking about you. Everyone has a different starting point and different habits...it's important to not just figure out how something can be achieved in general, but also how that relates to where you're at. At first i though you were trying to simply find how to get more muscle, as if you had max'ed out you natural potential....but now it appears what you really want is to find out how to control the process so precisely that you only gain muscle when you bulk, so you're more concerned with not gaining fat while you build muscle. Is it possible to do it? In a way yeah...you won't be able to completely eliminate fat gain, unless you're set up in a lab and scientists are monitoring every single aspect of the process and manipulating it, but you can definitely minimize how much fat you gain. Primarily, you dont want to go overboard with excess calories. Yes you do need more than youre burning to build muscle, but you need to get a rough estimate of how much that is, so you won't be going well past it. Are you looking at your calorie intake at all? If that's not right, then having the greatest post workout shake isn't going to be very benficial. It may be why you're feeling tired and stagnating, although im not sure why you'd still be lifting more if thats the case. It could be just the learning curve that's helping you lift more.
I do keep track of my calories (on my phone actually). I'm doing ok with that, I think the thing I'm worried about is the timing of taking in calories, and the right nutritional mix. I could be having mcdonalds to get to my target calories. But I'm trying to improve the MIX - more fresh food, right balance of protein/fat/carbs, and all of this at the right time. I have it down to a T with meals. So right now, as you said, I'm looking very closely at pre and post workout nutrition to make sure (1) I don't gain excess fat and (2) I have sufficient energy to lift and (3) best foods to recover as fast as possible. I am still lifting more - I haven't hit a strength wall I think, but I do have far more soreness than I should have right now I think. The kind of soreness you would get on a first day back at the gym. So I'm fighting it as if it's just in my head and keep pushing harder each day, however I'm now wondering if I can fix this with the proper nutritional mix. I know my own habits, and I am fighting dearly to avoid one day waking up and saying "I'm going to quit this for now and come back to it when I feel better." I don't know if that makes sense, but you are right about one thing - my number one goal is to steadily increase my metabolism over the next few years.
also, how did the weight loss go? If you still have excess fat, then perhaps you should continue trying to cut and sort of do it backwards. Cut first, then start exting more and lifting heavier...you'll still gaine some fat during that process, but there won't be as much fat to begin with, so it won't be as bad in the end. Don't worry too much about it, if you feel you're putting on too much fat then cut the calories back some, mainly the bad ones...stay with that for a few weeks and then re-asses. You have to play with all the variables involved...mainly the amount of caloric intake and intensity of training. Mainly look out for energy level and fat vs muscle gain. For example, if you're not tired, not gaining much muscle and fatter, then you're probably not working/lifting enough. not much fat or muscle gain, but tired? Might be too much aerobic type workouts (like higher reps, might be time to lower the rep and increase the weight...and so on.
