I hope you understand the contradictory views you expressed in one post. On one hand you want to appease the sensibilities of a dude in the pockets of the coal industry because you don't want to lose him in the Democrat voting coalition and then proceed to label Bernie voters morons... who are part of the democrat voting coalition. Like self-awareness dude... Or is it that Bernie voters are a safer bet than Manchin voters in the Democrat voting coalition which means you can take them for granted which then contradicts your last statement? Btw you should check out the rate of Hillary primary voters voting for McCain.
Once again theres NO APPEASING. This is how a democacy works in America. I dont understand why you people dont understand. Theres no turning Manchin left or making him more liberal. Whinning and b****ing will get you no where but further from the goal you want. Running ads in WVY attacking Manchin a few months ago is the dumbest thing liberals could ever have done. Its so funny watching liberals pretend they know how to apply pressure and win elections. All their candidates in 2018 got smoked and it was the moderates house democrats that came into office. All their grassroot campaign got them no where with Bernie and then they blamed the DNC. I guess it was the DNC fault that voters in Bernie home state voted less for him in 2020 then in 2016
Dems have more political cohesion than the GOP. Notice that the GOP couldn't figure out a way to repeal Obamacare through reconciliation - despite having 52 Senate Seats. Nor could they get a huge chunk of Trump's crazy cabinet officials through. It's easy to have political cohesion as the opposition party where you just vote against things the other party is pushing, and both Dems and the GOP are phenomenally good at that. It's different when you have to vote for things. Even more so when you have a 50/50 split and the people at the center KNOW they have power. It's why the losses in NC and Maine really hurt - the goal was for Dems to get 51-52 seats so no one Senator had veto power. Manchin understands his state - he barely held on in 2018, but he did hold on. No other Dem will represent that state in a generation, so if you want a chance at controlling the Senate, the reality is that he has power and you have to deal with it. Dems turned on Ben Nelson in Nebraska for not supporting the public option in 2009 and permanently lost that seat as well because he wasn't pure enough for them. There aren't enough blue states to have a majority in the Senate, so unless Dems can hold a bunch of purple state seats and several red state seats, all progressive ideas are dead for the foreseeable future.
If you created a business were you can't afford full time workers a living wage where they can do things like afford rent at the recommended 30% of the recommend amount of monthly income, then your business model was bad in the first place. If your employees are full time workers, that is their only source of income to live off of. I'm assuming your business isn't consumer facing? Because if it was, a higher min wage would increase foot traffic to your business. I would imagine that he largest sector of small pass through businesses are consumer facing(restaurants, grocery stores, gas stations etc). If not we'll I guess we got low fed interest rates. Take advantage of them I guess.
debating the premises of ideas on socioeconomics isn't the same as understanding the practical reality of what is possible. I understand the practical reality. Does that mean we cease debate in expressing proggressive ideas? Bernie spamming his proggressive message has shifted some paradigms on some issues. So **** off if you think I'm not going to defend proggressive ideas. The entire concept of expressing your opinion on a message board is a waste of time. Democrat legislators aren't reading these posts. Joe Manchin isn't going to leave the Democrat party because I expressed my opinion of him and his constituents in WV.
Im 100% for raising living wages for working people. I would be 100% for a small payroll tax on certain business that make XX amount of money to help fund free community college, trade schools, more schlorships, etc. The solution to the minimum wage debate isnt to keep hiking it up and put small business in jeopardy. Its to teach those same employees more valuable skills that could help them retain a better living for them no matter the current environment. We need more carpenters, electricians, plumbers. This isnt a debate that progressives are wanting to have. Throwing Manchin under the bus gives you ZERO good will. This whole "lets force the vote" is the dumbest idea ive ever heard. Its mind blowing how these leaders who come up with these ideas are some how leaders of the wing. The thing is that those progressives will not accept that and will divide the party more. Its mind blowing how they dont understand how a senate works or how the american democracy works yet there somehow leaders. Lets somehow force the vote on minimum wage and piss off our most important Member. Manchin already folded on the 1400 checks and who was going to receive them. He was really against the checks and for anyone above 50k getting them. He folded on them and instead took a hard line on minimum wage which im sure was a calculated play by the BIden Administration.
You do understand the reality that not every human can be some skilled laborer? There is a supply and demand market for those jobs. There isn't an unlimited supply. There will always be unskilled workers and they still deserve rent, basic utilities, healthcare, nutrition etc.
Maybe youre not understanding that those same jobs that youre trying to protect will be gone if you raise minimum wage. Im just being 100% honest that if the minimum wage was 15$ i would have to lay off half my staff and hire a virtual staff overseas. I dont think you understand how many options small business have to outsource their work. Theres nurses, doctors, secretary's, lawyers, writers, assistants, literally minutes away for half the cost through sites like upwork and others. I know half the business in my city in Indiana would do the same and those same employees will be left in the dark due to outsourcing and minimum wage. You need to understand how capitalism truly works. Those employees you keep referencing to will not have work anymore if the wage was to hiked.
Don't really care about personal anecdotes. We can see large scale case studies of states that have implemented a 12 dollar minimum wage(eventually 15 in a few years) like Washington St. In an ideal scenerio we can legislate making outsourcing these jobs an illegal behavior. I understand that will never happen but I wish it did. You can beer the cost up front with investment loans and then wait for the trickle up from increased economic activity of people having more disposable income to spend. We have been doing the exact reverse of that for 40 years so I'm fine with a course correction.
Also if other inferior countries can have more respectablr min wages, then I don't have much pity here for "small businesses owners". https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=MIN2AVE Out of the vast majority of developed countries, the United States' min wage percentage of median income is one of the lowest. We as a nation have been brainwashed to believe this is acceptable and just part of reality. Coincidentally we are also one of the few developed nations that allow unlimited donations from corporations to our politicans. And look at who owns most of our media outlets. Publicly traded mega corps who have a vested interest in minimizing the cost of labor.
I don't think anyone is against advocacy. Progressive plays an important role to push Biden and moderate toward their goals. But when I said realistic, I'm talking about reality of governing. I sometime see position that doesn't move the needle because it's almost an all or nothing position and I have seen justification for such position (close to burn it all down so we can finally get there later). I wish there is a progressive with the namesake of Bernie that work under the hood with moderate on strategy that is best for both. That partnership is much better than loud argument and differences - and maybe that is going on and we aren't seeing that.
I'm sure Bernie himself is working on some sort of compromise such as tax penalties for larger corporations as if mentioned before.
I agree, there isn't a unlimited supply of skilled labor jobs, however, this country does have a shortage of skilled laborer workers. I'm good with raising minimum wage, but we need to do a much better job of getting some of these workers into these trade jobs than trying to convince everybody to go to college. These jobs pay a lot more than minimum wage, so we should focus on getting some of these individuals that may be trending to being stuck on unskilled jobs for the rest of their lives and instead get them to learn a trade that can help their earning power. I'm not referring to older folks (or individuals with disabilities), but I'm referring to individuals in their 20's, 30's that could avoid being stuck in some dead end job that doesn't pay.
Why do you think amazon is the biggest proponet for 15 dollar wage? Theyve ran more tv ads and more digital ads and more lobbying on this topic then anyone else. Do you think Amazon is doing this for the love of Americans? Common sense tells everyone but progresss that raising rates to 15 dollars will destroy rural America. The same progressives that hate big corporate so much will soon force everyone to work for them. Why do liberals bring up examples of ILLINOIS and WA to prove argument? You cant compare the economy of Indiana, Kentucky, WVY and WA
I'm 100% for some sort of tax that directly funds higher education amd trade school. The issue is this isnt an argument the liberals make. Instead they wanna jam it through and name call anyone who gets in the way.
Then we must see what the inherent flaw is with rural community business models where paying workers who work full time a living wage takes them out of business. Otherwise we need to consider a tax payer funded basic income allowance to supplement a living wage. A living wage doesn't mean being able to afford a xbox or a oled tv or a 800 dollar iPhone. It just means being able to pay 30% of your income in rent so you can afford basic utilities, healthcare, gas and groceries and some other emergency expenses.
With Congressional Stimulus Fight Looming, 76% of Voters Back $1.9 Trillion Plan, Including 60% of Republicans It's a good thing the senate represents their constituents.
Let me ask you this. If you had to pay your employees $15/hr what % increase in revenue would be necessary for you to maintain your current profit level? Fchowd believes that $15/hr would lead to trickle up and your business would see more revenue due to more people with money to spend. I would like to know the number to see how realistic it would be in your situation.
He said he doesn't have a consumer facing business as in it's a supply chain business which I acknowledge would take a longer time to see the trickle up effects which I half jokingly said he can pay up front for the additional labor cost with those low interest rate investment loans. Increase in disposable income for low wage workers immediately benefits consumer facing small businesses first like restaurants and convenience stores.
