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Is MCW the key to success?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jsingles, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. ClutchFam

    ClutchFam Member

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    Best coaching decision MDA has made..........benching MCW!!!
     
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  2. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    He said he's not particularly good at anything.... And he's right... All the things you named he CAN DO, but he's not particularly good AT ANY OF THEM.

    Also his % at the rim is dreadful and shocker since you didn't know... Russ isn't a good finisher at the rim and this has been the case for most of his career.. If you just watch highlights you wouldn't know it.. he's very erratic attacking the hoop often out of control and blows many layups, but he also has the explosive finishes to overshadow that for the casuals... Dame also is a below average finisher at the rim.

    He's well into his career at this point.. .He's not a decent player... Period... He's a walking minus and if you can't thrive running point under MDA or at least put your best foot forward, then we can stick a fork in your career.
     
  3. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Outdated is bad... You also have to assume he'd be good in another era when there's nothing suggesting that to be the case.... And thus it's irrelevant.

    Ben Simmons can't shoot, but he can defend and he's an elite finisher at the rim while also being a good passer... That's how it works out for him.
     
  4. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Idk why you'd use their raw FG% anyway... Honestly what of value does that actually tell you? Nothing.
     
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  5. napalm06

    napalm06 It Is Done
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    Do you truly think field goal shooting % is a meaningless stat? Or do you just want to have an argument? I can't tell.

    All stats need context. Doesn't mean they're worthless.
     
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  6. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    .
    I can give you individual aspects of where you could get value from FG%, but what you said was worthless in and of itself... Which is why you didn't answer my initial question.
     
  7. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    And yes... Raw FG% without any specific aspects underlined is 100% meaningless
     
  8. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Here I'll add some value to that post and correct it... Sorry I had to do it.. But you left me no choice.. Lol

    Michael Carter-Williams is shooting the worst TS% at 40%TS... Worse than Gordon who is shooting 43%TS...

    Who cares what Marquisse Chriss is shooting since he's barely played at all in comparison.

    Clark has played well, but is shooting only 48%TS... Green 47%TS (.250 for 3 pointers), and Paul 50%TS (.295 for 3 pointers).

    Our inability to hit open shots is partially due to playing bums like MCW.... 3-0 since his benching... And some of our better shooters being in a slump right now, but they likely regress to their averages. The D has come around. The energy is there. Gotta make shots. Easy peasy.
     
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  9. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Westbrook is one of the best (guard) finishers in the league. Also, him dunking is part of that lol. Being able to go up strong and yam on dudes results in easy points at the rim or on the foul line.

    The argument was that 54% shooting at the rim was 'dreadful' it is not for a guard that has to go into a forest of arms to get buckets. He has the same FG% in the paint as Derrick Rose...whose main skill in his prime was attacking the rim and finishing. I'm sorry, 54% at the rim for a guard is not dreadful. Maybe if you think Wade is the standard who finished at the rim at an insane % for a guard.

    You would be insane to say Rose is a bad finisher. His handle and his finishing ability was about the only two things he was elite at in his prime.

    Outdated is outdated. Andre Drummond is an outdated player but he's not a bad player.

    Ben Simmons is elite though, his nearly 70% FG% at the rim is prime Wade levels, but this is not the standard, this is the exception. If you took his finishing numbers and compared it to Harden then Harden would also be considered a bad finisher, which we know is not the case, at least I hope.


    I think in the 90s he would have been a much more playable guard, especially because of his speed with the ball would have been something more unique then and he has good size for a guard which was always a plus back then. We've had a lot pre 00s guard who became perennial all-stars with little to no shot, it just wasn't important then. Then the big was the focus, playing inside out was the focus, and if you could hit some outside shots then all the better it is true though that hand checking probably affected this...but we had guys like Isiah Thomas and Gary Payton shooting sub .300...the game has changed a lot.

    You are right that the issue is that he hasn't added to his skillset, there is no reason, none, that he can't shoot...at all. My guess is that he hasn't practiced enough at it...either that or it's a mental thing, lots of these guys make shots in the gym but it don't translate when the popcorn is popping as Clyde likes to say.
     
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  10. douglasreedy1

    douglasreedy1 Member

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  11. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Wrong... Harden rarely dunks, but he's an elite finisher at the rim and above average practically his whole career.... Yes Russ has more dunks, but he also has many more erratic out of control layup attempts..

    Yes it's below average and thus dreadful....

    Rose is not a good finisher... He's below average for his career... Even at his best he wasn't elite.. Yes he's fast and explosive and has many highlight finishes, but he has countless blown layup attempts and I slight him more than Russ because Russ will at least get to the line, but Rose would usually avoid contact to try and finish and sometimes it would give you some spectacular looking drives, but also many times he'd just be falling down and missing the attempt.... Being an explosive finisher does not mean you're an efficient finisher.

    Curry and Kyrie are also both better finishers than Russ and Rose.... And they're not nearly as explosive.

    Drummond is not outdated... His problem is he hasn't improved much at all, but he can do multiple things that have great value even in today's game such as rim protection and rebounding.... For example.

    Make a comparison... There is none... In past eras those guys that couldn't shoot were either ELITE playmakers or ELITE defenders if not both.... And Thomas was a mid-range machine... What is MCW? Not a good finisher, not a good midrange shooter, and not a good three point shooter.
     
  12. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Yes, erratic out of control layup attempts is pretty much what elite finishers have to do to get around a forest of arms to make the shots they do.

    This is not below average for guards...

    Curry and Kyrie also have fewer attempts in the paint and play on teams with 4 other shooters, the former on a team with historic shooters, so a lot of his finishes are uncontested layups. Curry is a great finisher but he's not a better finisher than prime Rose or Westbrook...and yes not being able to dunk and yam on dudes is part of it. The reason bigs and wings are better finishers than Guards is because they usually can do that with ease.

    When you are saying Russ and Rose have blown layup attempts are you saying they have blown uncontested layup attempts? These dudes dunk those. They are missing contested layups which are a lot harder to make than Curry driving into the lane on the Center that switched onto him and no one is in the paint because they have to guard Kevin Durant.

    I've honestly never heard someone say Rose is not a good finisher and you seem to be taking points off of elite finishers because they attempt circus shots...which kind of indicates their elite finishing ability in the first place. I would not call these wild or erratic shots, they are just harder because the guy taking it is trying to get the ball up and over a big whose trying to block the shot. Lebron doesn't take these shots since the guy he's attacking is probably backpeddling in the first place so that he doesn't get ran over.

    Being a rim protector and rebounder is the standard though. Rebounding and shot blocking are about the only things he can do at an elite level. I wonder how many Rocket fans would trade Clint Capela for Drummond. Also, Drummond is shooting 54% at the rim...as a center...I mean if you think this is bad for a guard then this is flat out garbage for a big.

    Well, the guys I named were hall of famers, there were many dudes pre 00s who basically just brought the ball up to entry pass to the post player. There were many guards at the time that shot sub .300 from three. All he'd have to do in a different era is bring the ball up and play defense. That's really what the PG was asked to do in the 90s. If they could hit shots, great. If they were a playmaker, great. But many dudes were just there to secure the ball past the halfcourt line really.

    Dudes like Doc Rivers shot sub .200 and made an all-star team in the 90s (Late 80s actually, same thing...)and again, Rivers was a decent, starting level player then...the likes of Rubio or something. The game was just different, a team in the 90s would not care too much about his shooting if he played defense and secured the ball. At the very worst he'd be a decent backup PG.

    Todays game, if you are a guard and can't shoot, good luck.
     
  13. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Not true... they're below league average... Russ at his his best is an average finisher... I named a few guards that are above average to elite finishers and that's not the case for them either... There's even more I can name... Oladipo is also a better finisher than Rose or Russ... More in control when driving at the rim and more efficient...

    I'm not talking about for a season or a few... They're better finishers for their careers... And they're more controlled and efficient finishers... Harden isn't yamming on dudes with any regularity and he's an elite finisher better than Russ and Rose as well.

    Yes they've blown contested ones and also shots right at the rim on drives that they should finish...

    Here's a good clip showing some of what I mean.



    He's not an efficient finisher... Doesn't convert at an above average percentage.

    So then his game isn't outdated.... if he excels at something that is standard....
    From what I saw on bkref... he's shooting 67% at the rim... Not sure where the 54% is from.

    What does MCW excel at that is a standard in this era? Nothing... He's outdated and bad.

    Name me some guys then... This actually disrespectful to Doc who when compared with MCW was a wayyy better shooter and also a much better passer... Nothing about what you're saying makes a good case for MCW in this era or that one.
     
    #113 Air Canada, Nov 8, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  14. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Victor Oladipo is a career 57% at the rim though and that's the same as Westbrook??? I'd agree that Oladipo is a great finisher, maybe better than Rose or Russ, I think Rose was better than both in his prime. The difference here is that you think below 60% is bad at the rim for a guard, I don't think it is.

    Harden is 10x the finisher than Curry and Irving, he doesn't jam on dudes with regularity but he can, he's probably one of the strongest guards in the NBA as well which makes up for his lack of explosive ability through the air. Yes, he's probably a better finisher than Russ and Rose, but that's like saying to me that Klay is a better 3 point shooter than Curry, they are all elite finishers to me.

    Curry and Irving are really good finishers, I don't think they are elite at it. I don't think they could get the majority of their points on it. I mean James Harden has made more inside shots than Curry has taken...and so has Westbrook.

    This why a higher % at the rim doesn't necessarily make someone a better finisher. Rudy Gay has a higher 3pt % than Curry this season, doesn't make him a better 3 point shooter though, even if Curry shot low .400, it's probably because he's been relying on his shot too much in that particular time period and not because he's a bad shooter.

    [​IMG]
    Okay, 55%. And he probably threw up his hook shot 10 times so far this season. He does that every now and then but he's been doing that for years and never really developed it into anything more than a curiosity.

    He's outdated because he's very replaceable. People aren't frothing at the mouth for Drummond. Back then though he'd easily be thought of as a more important player in a more half court oriented game. I don't really care that he can rebound and block shots, if Hartenstein develops an outside shot he becomes instantly more valuable than Drummond.

    Man at the end of the day MCW had few successful years in the NBA, even won Rookie of the Year, trying to compare him to anyone is fruitless. The only point I'm making is that he's a decently skilled player. You don't win rookie of the year and put up 11-5-5 in the NBA being a complete scrub. Complete scrubs don't do that. Unless you think the 90s era was more skilled than players today (It was not, I'd argue outside of bigs it was less so...even then I'd say bigs today are more skilled, the 90s just had exceptional exceptions like Hakeem and Malone and Ewing) then I don't know what else to say.
     
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  15. jsingles

    jsingles Member

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    Not sure how MCW not even being in the building affects the team, will see, but I don't think it'll count toward the Rockets' record w/wo him.
     
  16. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    We need him.
     
  17. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    ...to get zion
     
  18. jsingles

    jsingles Member

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    If only MCW was completely healthy, but still sitting on the bench for a healthy scratch. We'd have won for sure.
     

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