We already have those things in the west. It hasn't led to winning the war, so I assume you're referring to instilling those values into the Arab world? You would get no disagreement from anyone that having equal rights and freedom of religion or whatever in the Arab world is a good thing. Those are meaningless platitudes. It's like saying we solve poverty by making people wealthier. The question is HOW do you accomplish that? What specific actions can the west take that would lead to more freedoms in the Arab/Muslim world?
Don't bother, he has no interest in actually thinking about that, he has interest in just being a troll and just attacking anyone who doesn't go along with his crazy agenda.
No they are not. If they were meaningless, there would be worldwide agreement on them. But there isn't. You should remind yourself of that. Also, it is not just "in the Arab world". It's the whole Muslim world, which affects at least 10 % of the German population, a higher percentage of the French population, and in fact the most populous Muslim country is not "in the Arab world". Attitudes towards, e.g., equal rights for women are completely different in those segments of the population. It directly affects life in Europe and in many other places around the world. It's actually quite embarrassing for you that I have to explain that to you. No, it's not. Poverty and wealth are not ideas. Practically nobody (perhaps except a few monks or nuns or something) prefers poverty. But there are many millions of people who follow an ideology that prefers to NOT have equal rights for women, that prefers to NOT treat people with different religious beliefs equally and that prefers to NOT allow freedom of speech (or humor, or satire). First you need to understand the diagnosis. Then you think about the therapy. And you haven't even understood the diagnosis. And now YOU tell us how you think you accomplish that.
When you are referring to 'diagnosis' I'm assuming you are referring to western leaders becoming theologists and explicitly criticizing Islam. Right? You think that's going to solve the problem? You think Muslims are going to be like "Obama said Islam is evil, well then as a Muslim I agree and must leave my religion or reform." Is that what you are hoping for? Fyl, religious nuts don't take ciritism of their religion well.
No - mainstream Muslims need to make the diagnosis for themselves - they need to gradually change and come to the realization that women should have equal rights, that freedom of speech should exist and that gay people and people of other beliefs should have equal rights. All that doesn't force them to give up their belief in their prophet, the Quran, and whatever. But they need to accept basic human rights the rest of the world has come to agree on. Only when mainstream Muslims change on a broad scale, the fringes will be sufficiently isolated. Right now, there is way too much tacit approval or at least not opposition. How to get there? My honest answer has been and is: I am not sure. One could have hoped that more exposure to Western values would have helped this process, but it actually seems to have had the opposite effect at least for some immigrants, and it seems to have done little in Muslim societies. In contrast to certain people, I am not going to pretend that I have all the answers. And while certain people think that it is a way to shut me up to say "if you don't have all the answers, don't speak" - they are wrong. They would love to silence me. It's what leftists (and intolerant Islamists) like to try to do. That's because they don't like to hear the truth.
I have a big hunch that the fundie oppression of women is a bone thrown at the men in dirt poor areas where they're told they're the best and chosen only to see and realize they have next to nothing when they have access to the outside world. Such a shock to lifelong doctrination catalyzes ****ty things done in the name of religion and if deeply rooted, transcends class and education. Women's rights is a serious stepping point which not all Muslim countries have even considered tacitly endorsing. Sure some countries are more secular and culturally relaxed on the ground as some sort of open secret, but institutional support for women has to be extended and recognized as a core principle which sadly hasn't gained full traction. That's visible progress. Imo everything else is apologetic hogwash.
Lol, women's rights and homosexual equality aren't going to do ****. As if thats the only flawed part of modern day Islam. You need to focus on the ideology that pushes sane humans to, and past, the breaking point. Basically, the issue here are moderates. The garbage they deviously feed the west is calculated and carwfully planned. Amongst themselves, after incidents such as Paris, all you hear is the lack of respect and national mourning periods for dead muslims (being killed by other muslims hiding behind them). "Who cares, Syrians are dying every day. Western media only cares about white people. What about me?" And to these entitled immigrants, living a life of luxury in the west I ask... who's fault is that? The majority of the French terrorists were French muslims living in France. Were they born in sand huts with nothing going for them except a copy of the quran? No. They had numerous chances to integrate into a very liberal society but at the first sign of failure or adversity, you can see the ease with which young muslims jump ship from "moderate" Islam to extremism. Boston bomber couldn't make it as a boxer? Boom, becomes islamist. The examples are countless, the story the same. And the moderate community does nothing to keep these people on the right track because the quran alone sure does a terrible job. The only solution is to pressure the moderates to open the doors of darkness. Set forth a culture of promise, hope and positivity instead of deception, bitterness and envy towards people who laugh and make love to girls who wear shorts. The whole you don't understand what being a muslim is about so don't invade my privacy is bull**** when so many bad eggs are trickling out from the darkness. Impose sanctions on muslims of any nationality if they dont act with complete transparency until they , as a whole , can integrate with civilization. With progress. With forward thought. It's a precautionary safety measure and a small price to pay for living in a safe haven far away from a world of hate.
Can you elaborate with a tad more nuance what that exactly would look like? How do you exactly impose a 'sanction' on a religious group?
^^ I'm not gonna quote the whole thing Even though I agree economic sanctions seem like a good idea .. They only work if the world is truly unified, and that is going to be almost impossible to do . The incentive for another country to cheat and be a trading partner is huge .
This is the only honest and correct answer that you have. No one else knows any better either. What is my point? Stop acussing Obama for not having a perfect answer.
No you just have no ideas because you are busy attacking and demonizing. You never think about solutions. You never have a single thought. Answers? Of course no one knows for sure, but this is all about discussing ideas, and you have none. I never said show me all the answers...I just asked ok - 10 years you have been on this anti-Islam crusade, why not actually try to show some thoughtfulness about providing answers? We know the problem already. Knew it before your first post. But you can't discuss anything. You asked for my ideas - not my answers, and I reluctantly shared them...because I knew you wouldn't even read them or care - you just wanted to attack me like you always do. It's too bad. It's why I think you're just a narcissistic a-hole.
I don't know why you are so intimidated by me that you feel the need to play this stupid game. Have an intelligent discussion. i attack you because you attack me. We just hit each other over and over again because I spew your vileness back at you. Frankly I am tired of it, I'm getting too old for it. So if you want to have an intelligent conversation - if you are grown-up enough to do it - do it, otherwise this is just a waste of time and energy
The only way to stop the terrorism is to stop the double standard and stop funding and using them. "terrorism" vs terrorism. stop that.
