1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Lin leading all point guards (with 21 mins or more) in true shooting %

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JBar, Nov 12, 2013.

Tags:
  1. ArtV

    ArtV Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    6,893
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    Quote? I find it hard to believe that a smart man would think TOs are ok. That was a big part of why the Toronto game was that close. When you out rebound the other team and they still get 30 more shots in the game, then you have to find the leak. Part of the leak is TOs. And if you don't care about TOs then you really don't care about Ws and I think Morey is all about the Ws.
     
  2. bws

    bws Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,113
    Likes Received:
    22
    At the end game interview he thanked his team mates for getting the ball to him but said he had to do a better job getting them the ball. Lin likes to score, but he loves setting his team mates up even more.
     
  3. liunatic

    liunatic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    21
    From Quora - This is a post where he addresses turnovers. Just providing factual information on what Morey said. Draw your own conclusions:

    Daryl Morey:
    I would add a few points to the many good ones already made here:

    Many of Jeremy's turnovers are charges. These are the best turnovers to have as not only do charges mean that you are being aggressive as a player (when good things often happen) but also turnover charges are not "live ball" turnovers where teams get a higher expected value possession the other way. For example, in our opening Detroit game, Jeremy had no "bad pass" turnovers. They were all charges or off the dribble. Compare his lack of any bad pass turnovers to his 12 "high quality" passes in the game (passes he made that set up high percentage offense for others)

    This leads into my next point that Jeremy's passes were the best in the league last year in the percentage that led to high quality offense. This is a fancy way of saying that when he makes a risky pass it is usually for a high reward so his bad pass turnovers, when he has them, are not as bad as for other guards as his avg possession efficiency remains higher

    Finally, most young guards who are going to be very good start as high turnover players in college and in their early seasons in the pros and get better throughout their career
     
  4. ArtV

    ArtV Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    6,893
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    Harden needs to watch this too. He's gotten alot more sloppy lately. But I will say that Lin's TO history is longer than Harden's. That was a problem in NY too.
     
  5. JBar

    JBar Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    17
    I think he's had fewer charges and more live-ball turnovers this year.

    That said, he's still working out his chemistry with Dwight, and Asik does have stone hands.
     
  6. roxxy

    roxxy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    5,120
    Likes Received:
    162
    Surprised Lowry said this

    Everybody knows that high TO's in a young player is typically indicative of a high ceiling and a aggressive mindset which Morey values. This was mentioned a lot in Westbrook's rookie year. Look at Jose Calderon he has very few turnovers but one of the complaints about him is that he isn't aggressive enough as a playmaker.
     
  7. Angkor Wat

    Angkor Wat Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    13,148
    Likes Received:
    978
    Not entirely true. He'll have one or two bonehead turnovers a game
     
  8. liunatic

    liunatic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    21
    Yes I agree here. I've noticed a lot of his turnovers lately have been a result of poor spacing, miscommunication (developing chemistry), and Asik stone-hands.

    Gone are the "i'm going to jump in the air with nowhere to go" type turnovers which is fantastic.
     
  9. rayfantastic

    rayfantastic Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    10
    There still are a couple every game, but man knows what he needs to improve and works damn hard.
     
  10. ThisVoice

    ThisVoice Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    Messages:
    932
    Likes Received:
    16
    Coming from DD thats pretty huge, as far as I know DD has been pretty critical of Lin's game.
     
  11. Calamity.12

    Calamity.12 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yeah, let's not get carried away, this still happens once a game or so. His ball handling and general court vision/memory are still the next items for him to work on.

    That said, its not like it was in new york (or even last year), where he suddenly tries to force the game into hyperspeed and gets 3 or 4 in a row (with the third quarter of the second clipper game being the exception).
     
  12. Play07

    Play07 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    4,973
    Likes Received:
    244

    he is not getting ripped from the ball his handles are real nice, its just the chemistry is not there yet with howard and asik just can’t catch them. He can nail no looks and passes into tight places better than most pgs in the league it’s just a risk with doing them. For instance when he drives to lane C & PF have to know he is looking to pass more than harden so you may want to roll to rim with him and get ready just in case he needs to dish. When harden rolls you may want to just worry about getting rebound. This is a team chemistry issue & knowing how different players play it will get better with time
     
  13. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,027
    Likes Received:
    439
    Blame everyone but him for any shortcomings AND act like he doesn't do something that he does all too regularly? Gotcha.

    Dude is playing better, and his shooting has been much improved of late, but like everything else, we'll see how it goes over more than a game or two.
    Probably the same people praising his play since becoming 6th man are the ones who argued against it so much, not to mention the ones who most want McHale gone.
     
  14. torocan

    torocan Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    4,228
    Likes Received:
    436
    I sometimes think that people have unrealistic expectations of how much a player can work on during the off season.

    Lin improved his 3pt shooting, his 2 point shooting, his left hand, and his defensive fundamentals.

    Considering how many people on THIS forum said last year that Lin could never improve ANY of those weaknesses at all, I find it funny how much people are STILL nitpicking Lin's game.

    Just starting his 2nd year as a starter, and I still see a lot of "Yes, he's improved A, B and C, but look... he's still weak in XXX!"

    Dwight is in his 9th season in the NBA and still can't shoot FT's.
    Harden is in his 4th season and is still a poor defender.

    It takes time, dedication and a tremendous amount of hard work to improve one's game. Anyone remember how many awful weaknesses Lebron had in his early season's?

    32-33% 3 point shooter for 4 of his first 5 seasons
    < 78% FT shooter for his 11th consecutive season
    No post game for many seasons

    Yet somehow Lin is both criticized because "He has no upside!" and "He's improved but...!".

    Considering how many players hardly improve at all, I would think that Lin's improvements since his arrival in Houston would tell us a couple basic truths.

    1) Lin will work tirelessly to improve his weaknesses.
    2) Don't assume that Lin won't continue to improve.

    Personally, I'm very happy with his progression. He's improved far more quickly and in more areas than most players with his level of professional experience. Can he still improve in other areas? Sure.

    However, I'm willing to be happy with what he's been doing and let him figure it out.

    It's amazing how patient people are with players like TJones, Dmo, etc, but somehow expect Lin think he's not going to improve, or worse still to think that there's something wrong with him if he doesn't become perfect overnight...
     
    2 people like this.
  15. Xfinity

    Xfinity Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    3
    Lin consistency and improvements so far this year have very little(if any) to do with him coming off the bench. He didn't play well so far because of his new role. He is playing well because of the works he puts in to improve over the off season. The fact that McHale starting Bev over Lin when clearly Lin is the better player is why some people think McHale needs to go.

    I know that some will say Bev is a better fit with Harden or that Lin needs to be on the 2nd unit so there would be a scorer, but fact is Bev is not a better fit with Harden now that Lin jumper has improved. Lin is a better shooter than Bev right now, and Bev has not learned to play tough defense without getting into foul trouble. Plus Lin defense has improved also. Rockets are not losing much on defense with Lin and gain a lot more on offense. So how does McHale justifies starting Bev over Lin when Lin is the better player and better fit than Bev? It doesn't make sense.
     
  16. cdblue10

    cdblue10 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    3
    It's hard when you are 13'ers you can't even give any comment for LIn because you will be brand as either LOF or LOH for whatever is that means for idiotic and stupidity that goes around here.
     
  17. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    67
    Anyone who is willing to categorize you entirely based on your join date is someone whose respect isn't worth the bother. There are a lot of folks on this message board who don't even read the content of posts before knee-jerking a response. They're more interested in hearing themselves talk than in having a discussion with other people.
     
  18. JBar

    JBar Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    17
    First of all, CrazyDave, his high shooting percentages are drawn from all eight games of the season, not "a game or two."

    I'm not sure who exactly you are referring to when you say the "same people praising his play." As the OP, I thought his high shooting percentages were something worth discussing, but I also noted from the get-go that his assists were down. I recently noted in thread that his live-ball turnovers were up to point out that the turnovers he's committing are in fact probably as a whole more detrimental this year (though I thought it was also fair to qualify that a bit). I am on the record for urging Lin fans not to be upset about him coming off the bench, and my only comments on this board about McHale have been in support of him.

    I think the majority of comments on this thread haven't been over the top in praising Lin. I understand that old timers on this board sometimes have legitimate beefs about LOFs, as when certain LOFs see conspiracy everywhere or look only for Lin's strengths and ignore his shortcomings. But LOF antagonists (i.e. LOHs) also contribute to the hostile atmosphere when they overgeneralize about anyone saying something nice about Lin's play.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. Hrock

    Hrock Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    25
    People are going to hate no matter what. They will find a reason. :rolleyes:

    They say they hate the LOFs, which is hilarious to me because most Lin fans posting on here actually agree with everyone who talks about Lin's shortcomings. The kid has talent, that's undeniable. He was a big part in making playoffs last year when he finally recovered from his knee surgery. People hate on his playoffs even though he was injured, and they say his first playoff game was awful, he wasn't injured then. That's funny, because I recall everyone else playing horribly in Game 1 against OKC. Lin will keep proving people wrong, as he has his entire life in basketball. People will always hate, so there is no point in really arguing on here, even if your being reasonable and conservative in talking about Lin. Its pointless to do it. Just enjoy the season, and his play will prove everyone wrong. He is already doing better than most PGs in their second season in the NBA. I say second season because technically it is his second season as a starter playing in majority of the 82 games. They will find reasons to put him down, but he has shown improvement that some players never show after being in the NBA for several seasons.
     
  20. Breitbard

    Breitbard Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    18
    Hyperspeed seems to still be Lin's biggest cause of dumb turnovers. I like that he pushes the envelope, tries to play hard when the going gets tough like in the Raptors game. But that is when he is most likely to drive into the trees and throw a wild pass. He settles back down faster than he used to though.

    One area he has made a lot of improvement from last year is help defense. I see a lot of folks still complain about this, but Lin stays on his man when that player is one pass away. He pretty much only helps when the ball is on the far side, or when an opponent is making a move in the paint with his back to Lin's man. Lin still has trouble with some of the craftier guards, like CP3, Parker, Curry, but it is not from lack of effort.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now