No it is stupid. Harden is smart to stay. Houston will give him everything he needs. He not missing them high ass taxes in other states because he wants all his $$$. Even Shaq and Tmac got houses here. If you have to leave to get help to win are really any good? What does that say about a man character? It says a lot. How can one claim to be elite when they create their on conditions and scenarios which benefit them greatly. Where's the adversity in that? Manufactured adversity lol
But if we wanted Lenard we could have drafted him. He is not on Harden level. Big hands, check. Can jump out the gym? Check. Play defense, check. Playmaking and shooting, not so much. This is why needs a point guard. https://sports.yahoo.com/report-kawhi-leonard-wants-clippers-220126516.html
But Dwight has actually carried scrubs to the Finals and tried on his own before going to LA and then coming to Houston and then finding his way after. You don't have to like Dwight but he chose us over LA. Got to love that.
I voted no, because I think Harden has consistently been the better overall player, while Kawhi I believe has been a little overrated in being rushed into the top 5 every year by most talking heads ever since his first superstar season. Though both players have weaknesses: -Harden is so insanely good by himself that he isn't flexible to adjust his game in the playoffs. Tends to settle and he has had some key games where he looked like he mentally gave up. -Kawhi used to be a system player, and in a lot of ways is a superstar version of that, in that he requires a great all around team around him (even now there's reporting that he's demanding a primary playmaker because he cant do it), BUT when he has a great all around team, he is good enough to push them over the hump in clutch moments, making those clutch shots you'd expect superstars to make. You could definitely argue that Kawhi has been very fortunate circumstantially in his playoff successes of the past ... Having the right team (that raptors team was solid all the way around much like his San Antonio teams in which he was the 4th option), having the opposing team suffer injuries to BOTH KD and klay. Who knows if the rockets were in the east whether we'd be able to have won a chip or two already because of circumstantial luck like that? I find it hard to believe we lose to a KD-less warriors for a whole series (versus one game), despite how much worse we were that year. But both players are kind of on the opposite end of the spectrums. One can carry by himself, but hasn't shown the flexibility needed to adjust in the playoffs, while the other can't carry a team by himself AT ALL but knows how to play off of others well (and frankly needs it ... he wasn't going to the clippers without recruiting another lockdown defender in pg there). This postseason showed some of those weaknesses for both. Kawhi's defense was exposed this year in the playoffs, and he choked just the same as pg13, montrez, lou, bev, etc., against an inferior team. It was obvious he couldn't will his team to eliminate the nuggets because of the limitations in his playmaking in addition to trying to guard murray. Harden played just as well as we've taken him for granted to be (averaging 30 AGAIN), and having opposing teams double him at half court half of the time, but the combo of him and MDA just don't find other ways to solve the gimmicks played against us. They tend to just keep reiterating the same game-plan that the other team is countering, and hope we'll just somehow hit more shots. In summary, I'll take Harden. UNLESS Kawhi's coming somehow nets us another all-around superstar, as his game more or less requires.
People's obsession with defense has gone out of control. This thread and the poll results are proof of that. When Kawhi is finished, where will he rank in terms of steals, blocks, etc.? When Harden is finished, where will he rank in terms of overall game stats? It comes down to how the teams use these players. I do believe Kawhi brings a more dynamic opening for the coaching staff to adjust with on both ends of the court. However, I firmly believe Harden is the better talent overall. He just needs more help and a front office that can match a style of play for both the team and Harden.
Scrubs to the finals? He had at least 2 allstars on that team and other players that went on to play in allstar games. You really don't know the history of basketball.
That team was pretty underrated in terms of complementary players. Rashard Lewis, Hedo Turkoglu, Matt Barnes, Vince Carter, Jameer Nelson, JJ Redick, Mikael Pietrus, Marcin Gortat, Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson. Like if you take that EXACT team (those players and their performances that year) put them in 2020, replaced Dwight with Harden, that's a Finals team for sure. Harden surrounded by 4 legit 3 point shooters? Unreal.
You know I see this argument a lot, the Ben Taylor argument lol. But is there any actual evidence that putting Harden on a good team would not able to ceiling raise as high as Kawhi? I think its unfair when we havent really seen Harden in a situation like that. So much defensive attention is given to Harden that its hard to imagine him doing worse when less is given to him.
Yeah I actually looked at that roster and even I forgot how stacked it was but I think you have the wrong year. Carter was not on that team. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2009.html
I do know the history, they were scrubs like I said. Your joking right? One time Allstar Nelson? Aslo Rashad "2-time barely made the allstar game, but did because he played with Dwight" Lewis? It was his last allstar game. They were meh, ok. Not as good as you try to make them out to be. Looks like you don't know you basketball history. Try again.
I know stupid that's why I said two time. Seattle was 2005 though....what happen in 2006,2007? Oh wait he was sucking....continue to sound dumb. He sure in the hell was not starting in 2009 Allstar game.
More professional???? How professional is excused absenteeism? His load management requirements would literally implode CF, nevermind what it would do to the team when they need him.
Back in 2016 when this thread was created, Kawhi wasn't doing any load management. My opinion has changed since.
zach lowe has made the same point regarding curry and harden. I think it's a question of preferences and making guesses about fit and personalities. I doubt there is conclusive evidence one way or the other. Imo curry/kawhi are easier to fit into a good team & systems as neither need to dominate the ball to the same extent as harden. Hardens best seasons are the ones where he has the least help. His usage rate in those seasons are all time highs with only westbrook's crazy seasons being comparable. That is a credit to hardens ability to do much with a little.
I doubt either the clipps or rockets would make this trade, so a better question is... Would you trade harden for embid and jrich. Feel free to add picks on either side to make this trade more agreeable. I'd be tempted to say yes, if not for embids health concerns.
