So basically you made a thread where you are pissed the Rockets are "overpaying a back up center" and now you are pissed that they are not going to. So do you actually want the Rockets to get Asik or not? Or are you a non-Rockets fan who comes to this board in order to fill your daily complaint quota?
Meh, Thank you. There seems to be an infestation on this board of people who don't really have anything to contribute other than "this franchise blows". This proves it.
Repped simply for calling out the hypocrisy on this board from guys who contribute nothing but whining to it.
Thanks for pointing this out. We are all here to comment on various happenings with the team and around the league. However, it's one thing to have an actual opinion and analysis on the events and decisions, it's quite another to just put yourself on the pro-Morey or anti-Morey team and spin everything in favor of your faction. This kind of crap is rather tiring.
I don't think it is that hypocritical. He was pretty specific in noting it's horrible news for the Morey brigade. I'm still ok with Morey myself. I don't think the Asik offer is overpaying per say, but I am in no way excited about it and don't care if the Bulls match. But with that type of perspective, or even if I thought it was a horrible move, it is certainly possible to think that way but then also recognize the "failed" nature of the move on DM's part if the Bulls do match.
He's a Morey Only Hater. He's one of many who are taking the position that all of Morey's POTENTIAL moves are mistakes, but if he can't execute them it is proof that he can't close. Example: Trading for Dwight is stupid! Murray will throw away our future because he's an idiot! {Morey doesn't acquire Dwight} HAHAHAHA! Murray can't close a deal! He's a disgrace! Worst GM in history! He put everything into acquiring Dwight and he can't get it done! Apply it to Asik or any other player that Morey targets. If he targets him he's stupid and if he doesn't get him after targeting him he can't close a deal. Then if he chooses to let a player go or not pursue a player he's an idiot for that.
This type of camp attitude is becoming quite rampant and detracting from the quality conversation that would otherwise be taking place.
Again, not a Morey hater here. But I am having a hard time understanding what is illogical about the above position. Morey has a potential move. I judge it and Morey based on my own personal opinion. I further judge Morey based on his ability to achieve his targeted strategy, whether I think it is the right one or not. How is that illogical?
If his position is against Morey, then it would be on offering Asik that contract. That decision carries with it two possible results: Chicago matches, or they don't. To complain twice about both separate results seems like it's just complaining for the sake of complaining. Also, my first reaction upon seeing this thread is that I don't like this development, if true. Because I care about the Rockets team, and feel like Asik can really help. A true Rockets fan's first reaction shouldn't be whether or not Morey looks good from the decision, but whether or not this is good for the team.
It is illogical. The argument being made against getting Dwight is that Morey will give everything and destroy the franchise when Dwight hypothetically walks away. When he doesn't acquire Dwight those same people will say he just can't close the big deal. That is illogical because it excludes the possibility that Morey simply wasn't willing to mortgage the future to get Dwight like they were afraid of to begin with. Everyone seems to think that Morey will just do some stupid "take everything you want" trade. If he doesn't ultimately pull that deal off, that group will just say he tried but wasn't good enough to convince the GM because he's not friendly enough or something stupid like that. Perhaps Morey just doesn't close the deal because he agrees with those idiots to begin with. Perhaps he takes the same position "Hey, I'm not going to give the lease to Toyota Center to get Dwight. If that's what it takes, I'm ok with not getting the player." Instead, you'll have dolts saying he just failed to make the deal because he's a stat head and can't convince teams to make trades. It's also illogical because if a team matches on a RFA what is Morey supposed to do? Threaten to rape the GM's wife and behead his children until he says "Ok Murray I won't match!" Larry Bird has made offers to RFA that got matched. Is he a stupid GM?
I think the interesting part is that this guy wants to divide people into "the Morey Bridage" and the "Anti-Morey Brigade." Why do people have to fall into either? I agree with some of Morey's decisions (like Omer Asik a lot) disagree with others (I would have relented on the player option for Dragic), but why we all have to pick a side and spin everything in favor of our position? As for the specific issue regarding Asik: Why does the Bulls' decision to match show that Morey was wrong? As I said, if the Bulls are willing to not only pay Asik $25M, but also to endure the poison pill/tax impacts of the contract, does it not show that the wanting to sign Asik is a good decision? If Asik is such a scrub, why does Tom Thibodeau, who knows his abilities better than anyone here, want to bring him back at great cost to their future salary flexibility?
That may be what he is doing, but it isn't the only conclusion. Hypothetically, I could say that I think the very CLEAR and OBVIOUS strategic direction DM (and Les I guess) are taking this team isn't the right one. But I can also recognize that is at least a potential direction and it's the one that they've chosen. As such, it only makes sense to further (or as you say, a second time) judge them based on their ability to actually execute on the plan they've chosen. I could say both that (1) their plan sucks, and (2) they further suck for failing to execute on their sucky plan, and in no way be contradicting myself. I don't know why I'm arguing this, as I've noted I'm not a Morey hater, but just thought I'd throw it out there. Not everyone who complains is a "hater". At this point in time, there is a lot to complain about, frankly, though we are still in wait and see mode.
I do understand your point. Has anyone attacked you as an illogical hater? I think if you look at the posting quality and history of the ones being branded "Morey Haters" you will see that in fact they really are just that. The RFAs make it more apparent. They trash him for making the offers to RFA and then trash him if the team matches. That is simply an impossible position to defend.
Maybe, though the moves made to date already seem to indicate otherwise. He trade Lowry for an unknown, sometime in the future draft pick that could be great or could be okay. Market value for Lowry? Perhaps, but whether fair or not, it points to the direction he wants to take. What else is left to "mortgage the future" over? Is he not going to include Royce White in a deal if it nets him Howard because he thinks White is the next Barkley or something? He's going all-in, and that's been known for a while. It's exactly why it's logical, imo. I don't count it as a strike against him, especially with this shortened RFA match period, and as "crafty" as he was in structuring the deal. He really pulled out all the stops and if the Bulls match, they match. But it does mean, despite his slick play, his strategy failed. He clearly wanted to sign Asik and have him on the team. If that doesn't happen then it was a failed move, no? Not because of those moves, no, but those moves clearly failed. probably true. i can't follow the posting history of all the relative newbies. I just am close to the camp of thinking adding Asik at the price tag offered given all the other moves was a kind of pointless and maybe even bad idea. And then also feeling a little down on DM for not even being able to do that, if the Bulls do match... EVEN recognizing there was very very little more he could do.
Well sure the move failed. That is hardly something to indict a GM for though. That's akin to a team rejecting your trade offer which probably happens more times than we can even imagine.
If you are complaining, and it is still in wait and see mode, then you are not doing a very good job of waiting or seeing.
If the Bulls thought the Rockets were overpaying, they wouldn't match. Much like Marcin Gortat, the price of the offer sheet may be more than is feasible for him to remain a backup, but the overall price is fair. The Magic matched Gortat's sheet, but eventually traded him to a team that needed him more and received compensation once he was traded. If the Bulls decide to match Asik, it will not be so that he can continue to be their backup for the next three years. Either he or Noah will be traded. It just depends on what they think serves their needs better now: having Asik on their roster for a future trade, or having the money available to sign an impact player now.
Is there anything more he could have done to allow us to snatch Asik away? If not, and the Bulls simply decided to match anyways, should we never have offered a contract at all? Would it make Morey a better GM had he simply sat on his hands and did nothing, therefore not "failing"?
Here's the deal about Asik, or any RFA: 1. Either Morey's offer of 3 years, $25M is overpaying him or it is not. 2. Either Chicago matches the offer, or it does not, it's up to them. Nothing anyone else can do. 3. The contract offer is worse for Chicago in terms of cap impacts than it is for Houston, due to the "back-loading" feature and the fact that Chicago has a large payroll and is expected to be pay luxury tax if they match the contract. 4. If Chicago matches, it means that they do not view the 3 year, $25M offer as overpaying Asik, even considering all of the extra negative cap impacts. And the front office and coaching staff in Chicago know Asik a lot better than internet posters on a Houston Rockets fan forum. 5. If Chicago matches, either people who were screaming that Morey overpaid were wrong or Tom Thibodeau and the Chicago front office are stupid. The latter does not appear to be the case.
