Your opinion changes not based on actually watching the sport. It changed based on whether whatever site that is spitting out the on/off rating is telling you. Do better in analyzing that just doesn't involve spitting out on/off metrics. When you physically watch the games, who is being face guarded and being denied entry passes the most ? Who has the most help defenders trying to cut off the driving lanes? Between Amen or Jalen who is going to be the one who is going to be helped off of more because they don't see them as much of a offensive threat? I remember the Kings commentators last night talking about the trials of Keagan Murray guarding the most dangerous opposing team offensive player and they were referring to the energy he's spending trying to stop Green... Not Amen. I mean just ask yourself which player opposing defenses fear more when they defend them?
By “us” I mean clutchfanners…I think I’m literally tied with you as the biggest Jalen fan on the website! But regardless of opinion towards Jalen, I will always see us as a collective. I’m not gonna dislike someone who is a fellow Rockets fan just because they have a different opinion on my favorite current player on the team. Because you never know, I might meet Bobby or Downtown Sniper in real life one day and I’d definitely like to get them a beer and get along well because I did not grow up around a lot of Rockets fans and I cherish all of us.
I talk a ton of sports IRL...but only to people who can appreciate the Rockets! The only team that matters
I kinda disagree with you there, because a few years ago, when most fans were still quite ambivalent about Jalen, he was receiving a LOT of what I feel like was over-the-top criticism. Not about his game, but about how he "carried himself" or how "feminine" he was or whatever. Stuff that leaves the bounds of being okay sports discussion and into stuff that has nothing to do with his game. Those people don't really post much any more but a lot of the Jalen "stans" started as just normal fans who liked Jalen. Is some of the Jalen discourse a little dramatic now? Sure! But that's the nature of sports fandom and I don't really see people getting mad when Jalen is praised slightly. Plus, I do think even a lot of the biggest Jalen fans here would readily admit when he's not shooting well, or that he has ball control issues sometimes.
My opinions change based on watching the games and on stats. I will say stats have drastically reduced my opinion of Green in the last couple of months as I thought the stats were just showing the Terror Twins effect and not Green's defense. Your opinion is based solely on the premise that Green is great and nothing will change it. On your last question, one on one, a defender fears Sengun most on the team and Green second. I don't think I'm even being that biased against Green's offense by saying I want two of FVV, Green, and Amen in the game at all times. The Rockets have to fix the defense while Green is in the game whether one believes Green is the problem or not.
There is only one that sits atop the mountain of haters. No one comes close to the incomparable, undeniable, hate filled @Bobbythegreat
Lol it's just objectively true. He's still below average shooting the 3 for a SG and his overall TS% is still below average for a SG, but his current numbers are trending in the right direction and his 3 point percentage is respectable. There's still plenty to complain about, but the improvement is undeniable.
YES. Jalen realists do watch the game and do see things they want him to improve on. But pointing them out is not acceptable. And you can't really bring statistics into it because the super fans will say it's about "context" or we're not seeing the whole picture. The bold part is truth. Statistics won't change that. Sengun is our most feared player, that's obvious. Some random tweet about "on-ball gravity" doesn't mean much to me. If Green is such a focal point then he needs to do better as that focal point. Every team tries to stop Luka, Shai, Ant and they outplay the defense. Jalen does sometimes and other times he doesn't. But pointing out that he needs to grow is verboten. Again, Sengun is frequently double-teamed and fouled most times he has the ball. Jalen is rarely double-teamed outside of the lane (and he gets fouled too without a call). The on/off numbers with Green mean something. But some fans would say they don't mean anything because they don't want them to mean anything. Green has played well these past few months, mostly evidenced by his improvement in 3 point %. That's what the realists wanted but the super fans said wasn't needed. Now that he has improved in the exact area people were calling for then they throw a big party and sing his praises. Yes, he's shooting better, that's what we wanted. The defense is below average to average. Talks about Green being a good defender are way overblown. That's just moving the goalposts early this season when his offense was putrid.
You make these claims of who is doubled and not and dismiss actual data of who has the most gravity on the team measured by literally NBA tracking data. Explain how this makes sense? "These Jalen apologists spam these arbitrary metrics about on ball and off ball gravity. Now here I am making an arbitrary claim about who has gravity based on my biased eye test". Sengun gets doubled only when he in a post position and when he holds on to the ball long enough. Green is face guarded off ball. And when he has the ball, no matter what part of the court he's on, he will have multiple help defenders covering his potential driving lanes by hedging towards his side. Hence the actual analytical data that calculates things like distance between ball handler and defenders explicitly shows Green has the most gravity. Sengun has a specific type of gravity that is seen in specific situations(post ups). Green's gravity is more ubiquitous. It's seen in all parts of a half court set. Sengun also unlike Green can be a negative gravity player. Look at like 90% of the time Sengun is used as a DHO hand off guy or a screener in a pnr for Jalen. See how often Sengun is left wide open in pnr sets. Green's gravity metrics has a lot do with Green sharing the court with Amen and Sengun. Him being the only player besides Steph Curry to be in the top ten in on ball and off ball gravity has more to do with the squad around him than him being a Steph Curry level feared player.
And if not Sabonis, then someone like Kyrie. The West is too deep. Green hasn't been consistent enough to overcome the other guys ahead of him in the West. Hopefully next season.
Hah, Minnesota is never doing that. They hung up on Dallas when they offered Luka for Ant. We have nothing on our roster they would take for Ant.
Yup agreed. He will get there. But there was zero talk about him being an all star substitute this year and all the talk was how Sabonis and whoever else was snubbed haha, so for this year there was no way Jalen was even a consideration.
I appreciate his overall improvement this season. However, Jalen really needs to cut down on his hero ball tendencies, playing without any awareness of what's going on around him. He often makes decisions long before the moment calls for him to make them. If he could develop a better feel for the game, it would spark conversations that would truly surprise most NBA fans. If he could change his passing into something more instinctual, instead of this forced approach like, "I want to shoot no matter what, but Ime says I have to pass, so here's a sloppy attempt just to move the ball". If he can do that, I really think he'll be in the mix for top 5 SG next season.
That's kind of how defense in basketball works dude. When your opponent is driving to the paint, you try to protect the paint. It might come as a shocker to you but teams actually do that 100% of the times regardless of who's driving to the paint.
