For a moment let's switch the two players and put KPJ in San Antonio. What do you think would happen? Do you think Spurs would give him an extension? Even if he was not injured like Murray, even if he had not thrown soup in the locker room, even if he had not left a game at half time, just because of his in game sulking, and not putting the effort at times, he would be sent away. So there is really not much parallel between the two. A number of posters here are claiming that kpj is playing with scrubs and you said that Murray had the luxury of playing on a team with a better coach and system with bonafide star level players. But that luxury comes with responsibilities KPJ never fulfilled even in his last season, after spending years in the nba. On the contrary, KPJ, in houston, has the luxury of getting unlimited playing time, making his mistakes, mentally getting lost during the game, or physically leaving the game and still gets to play his 30 minutes as if nothing happened. That is quite a luxury. On teams like San Antonio every possession is more valuable. It is not clear that KPJ will be able to replicate his play under a more competitive setting with a team where he does not have the freedom to do whatever he wants with no consequences. His decision making, and mistakes there will be much more important. The closest thing in Houston is clutch time, where his stats are pretty bad. So as you said, extension decisions do not depend just on stats, but that actually works against KPJ. Also playing in a bottom team hurts for our rookies as well, probably more so. Had our rookies(Green, Sengun, JC) came a to a team with a better coach and a system they would be much better, and developed more.
Definite parallels. It's telling for sure. Murray threw the ball at the ref and was subsequently traded 3 months later even after averaging 21/8/9 on the year, being named to his 1st All Star team and 2 years left on a team friendly deal.
I was kinda supporting your point of related skills ..... he's not good in "point guard" related skills according to the numbers. (I already knew the numbers).
That's like saying he's a great catch and shoot shooter ...... but the numbers show he does it less than once per game (0.9). ******************** The problem for me is that he's statistically bad at pick and roll but he's doing it 18 times a game. You can't be bad at something in this league and do it that damn often. That's literally the definition of insanity. I really think when you break down the numbers on KPJ it tells you this guy is an off guard - not a lead guard. He and the team would be better suited with him as the 6th man.
He struggles when he's on a team full of scrubs that are contributing nothing.... when his teammates start to not completely suck, magically his numbers skyrocket.
What do you think is his ceiling? You keep saying he’s the most talented rocket, meaning you believe he had the highest ceiling on the team. Do you think he can be a top 5 mvp finisher someday?
I think the CEILING for both Jalen and KPJ is superstar. I doubt they both get there, but they both have that talent. I would be happy if they both were all star players........I mean these are two amazingly talented guards... DD
Pffft. The point guard of the team is suppose to make folks around him better not the other way around. His number should b upped regardless bc he's not even a pure point guard.
That is the old definition of a PG, that is not how most teams play their PG anymore, most are scoring PGs....they get some assists but also score the ball. KPJ is fine as a modern PG.... DD
Exactly. He's not a pure point guard, so it's not unreasonable to expect him to upped his ppg as a scoring point guard. Booby states when his teammates start to not completely suck, magically his (kpj) numbers skyrocket. He should upped his number as a scoring pg regardless, no? I don't think I said anything controversial. Kpj isn't a traditional pg, so he should score more as a scoring pg to compensate
KPJ is terrible in pick and roll KPJ is terrible in isolation Those two sets are 95% of an NBA offense. What the **** makes KPJ a "fine modern PG"?? Don't tell me it's because he shoots .428 on catch and shoot 3's.
Having an insulated team for young players is ideal see also Cleveland Cavaliers. That is what SA offered Murray. Would it have gone similarly for Porter? Who can really say. You're making some stark assumptions keeping things static between two different organizations. One has Greg Popovich one of the best coaches in the history of the sport and the other has a first year coach who is probably not going to be long for the position. You guys keep taking snippets of peoples responses and morphing them to suit your argument. The parallel I was alluding to was between two players who have had some bratty outbursts during games. You took it a step further and needed that statement to suit another agenda and thats not being genuine. So with that I will say YES!! If Kevin Porter Jr was on the Spurs he would be on his best behavior and probably would have gotten an even bigger extension! See how that works? Last year Jalen Green was a "bust" on a team that lacked structure and star level veterans to keep the younger players in line. Murray LEARNED from Demar Derozan and LaMarcus Aldridge on how to be a pro and conversely probably on how to be a decent MAN in the process we had a Piru Blood gang banger in Wall and Chris Wood who probably carries around a mirror 24/7 to keep looking at himself. Playing 30 minutes of championship structured basketball is a big difference than playing 30 minutes of pick up ball so in that thought I can agree with you. Regardless both of these young players in Jalen AND Scoot have flashed among the disorder and shown that the talent levels are through the roof. I think almost anybody in tune with this team would say that Silas wont be the coach that leads this group to the promised land yet the youngsters are the ones that are to bear the brunt of the criticism? Even when comparing two completely different scenarios and franchises? SMH. Still you go futher and claim that Porter's "years" in the NBA have come at little development? Is that what I am to understand? How many players go from a secondary wing role to being asked to run lead guard and be successful their first full year doing it? Such a strange expectation, but it just reminds me how these talks for some of you are really not coming in good faith. Instead of looking for positives within released data you would rather look for the negative and then meekly say that you support the player and hope he turns out well? Cant have your cake and eat it too sadly. Not good in the clutch? I remember Scoot hitting at least three game winning/lead taking shots last season (SA,SAC,WAS). Do you have a year long source on this "not good in the clutch" as when I do a quick search Im not able to find the season long data and even further what metrics are you using to come up with this conclusion?
Yeah Verbal, it's not about the stats.....you, me, and the Rockets Know that Porter is going to have a bust out year; but like I said the Rockets still don't mind letting him go. D Murray is a good example: 21/22: (All Star): 21.1 pts...8.3 rebs..9.2 Ast..40.6 (Ast%)..11.8 (TOV%)..( $16.6M 22/23 - 17.7M 23/24) I estimate Porter will have (22/23): 20.4 pts...5.5 rebs...7.8 Ast...34 (Ast%) I would like for Rockets to pay him $18M on the average with first year being $15M. A previous poster said Murray was on a team friendly contract which is where I have Porter making. By all reports (articles/podcasts) the Rockets want Porter to sign near the qualifying offer of $9M. So I hate to tell you my friend, I personally don't think it's in the cards. But people bringing up stats or "he doesn't play smart" or "too many turnovers" is just a farce. It's smoke and mirrors. They just don't like the guy or trust the guy. Just like the Spurs don't trust Murray. PURITANS. Vernon Maxwell spoke of how Pops had a Private I follow him. Just a little tidbit....most, if not all NBA players, are being followed by P.I.'s. Here Mad Max: https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media...ey-had-a-pi-follow-my-my-dumb-didnt-even-know _______________ I'm predicting that the Rockets let Porter ball out and get his 20 pts..5.5 rebs..7.8 Ast..34 Ast% to build up his trade value and trade him at the deadline. Rockets claim they can't match what he will be offered during the off-season and sell him off just like C Wood who would've been a restricted Free agent next summer as well. Spurs got 3 first round picks for Murray from Atlanta. Murray will shine playing next to Trae Young and Capela. Putting together an All Saints League team may have us never winning a championship again. Sometimes it takes thugs. Heck, even some church leagues have Ringers fresh out of STATE PEN. Porter will end up going on to better pastures. Tear up the league. End up on the Tracking Former Rockets thread often.
So does that mean he will always be bad at PNR? When assessing this do you take the time to look at the screen partners in the formula? He was bad in rim finishing and isolation this year, but he was better at it the year before. Im not following how some of the arguments are leading to THIS being Kevin Porter Jrs final form. You are not giving him any credit. You are expecting regression. Why? Did the last few weeks of the season not offer you any hope whatsoever? Heck post ASB Scoot was playing really good ball. That team is more in tune with what we will be seeing moving forward. Who are you playing from this team over KPJ? Who is going to jump in and give you defense + 7 assists per night? TyTy Washington? Daishen Nix? Let me guess -- that player is not on the team! Season is almost here - we'll find out who was "wrong" and whatever that is I hope that ultimately its for the good of the Houston Rockets in getting back to contention and bringing home a few rings. We'll probably all look back at these threads and laugh in a few years either way.
If thats what ends up happening then so be it. I dont think anyone should get it twisted that its always Houston Rockets first. I happen to think KPJ would be a cornerstone for this team, but if he's moved for what ends up bringing home a few trophies then it was meant to happen that way. Just like the whole pre draft circus. We all had "our guys" and the moment the pick was made everyone switches up and starts riding with Jabari - for better or for worse. Loyalty to the team and its players is how I choose to fan. I agree I think KPJ will be a top 15 type player in this modern NBA. He offers size, versatility, handle, shooting, defense. He's the prototype for a combo guard and I dont see the backup guards being able to offer the same output -- MAYBE JC could get there if his defense takes some huge leaps. Scoot can be a live wire and needs to refine his position in certain situations, but he's 22!!! LOL ... Imagine what he will be at 27 while he's chasing rings. I hope he's not beating our backs in doing it. I hope he's doing it at as a Rocket. Year 4 is usually pretty telling if a player is going to be a star level type contributor so Im as excited as possible to see Scoot hit the floor this year. If he plays great then its good for the team which is what any Houston Rocket fan should want.
When I state the fact that he's currently the most talented player on the Rockets, it's due to the complete package. He's the only player who is proficient on both sides of the court who can create for himself and others, who can run the offense or play off ball, who is highly athletic AND skilled. If he ever put it all together, he could be one of the best in the league, like a Harden with better defense who doesn't mind playing off-ball. Now will he reach that ceiling? Who knows, but we got a glimpse of just how good he can be at the end of the season once Jalen Green showed up and stopped wasting the opportunities KPJ created for him. When defenses have to account for more than just KPJ, it opens everything up. It would be even better if they stopped playing Tate, he's like a smaller PJ Tucker who can't shoot and is worse defensively.....he makes the team essentially play 4 on 5 on that side of the ball. There's a reason why KJ Martin was one of the few players on the team with positive on/off numbers that played significant minutes and Tate's were negative. In fact, if you look at the on/off numbers of your game 1 starters last year Green -6.7 (He impressively managed to cut this down from -20 halfway through the season) Wood -1.2 Theis -9.8 Tate -1.4 KPJ +4.0 It should be a lot better this season hopefully getting the good version of Green from day one along with added defense and shooting from Smith and some passing from Sengun. That's why I think we could see a MUCH better team this season.
Yes sir anyone with half a brain can see *natural progression of one full seasons worth of playing point guard (none of this he's been in the for 3 years crap), *adding proper screeners (that actually roll to the basket), *screeners that can actually go above the rim for lobs (giving us vertical spacing), *Silas actually running his full playbook will result in huge improvements. I think some guys here are actually paid by the franchise to shape narratives one way or another. Prop up a guy and knock a guy down for the sake of financial negotiations. I don't think Reeko, corrosion, sam fisher believe half of what they are putting down. Rockets had two months in which they shot 36% from 3....in those two months the Rockets won 5 games and 6 games respectfully. Every other month was 34% or less and won 4 or less games in those months. Spacing is everything. Tate has been working nonstop on his 3 this summer. Sengun looks better, thinner in the legs/hips and hopefully can hit 3's the entire season and not just the first 20 games. I have no doubt that Green, Porter, JC are going to slice and dice opponents now that they can't pack the paint with 4 defenders. Still not sure Rockets will reward Porter when he does. Take care.
He must be a private person because other than him being a pizzeria owner I do not know if he has a significant other or kids.
