Ok, you got me, I'm guilty of a bit of hyperbole. And I'm the one being overdramatic after you wrote a couple of paragraphs? It's amazing you have an issue with my definitive statement, but not the ones claiming he can't exist with Green or that he needs to be the 6th man. I only see one guy making the claim he is already there but multiples saying he needs to be the 6th man, or he needs to be off the team because of attitude or his being a ticking time bomb, why no push back on that?
Every young player has character concerns, his are not that much greater than others. And when does he get past those concerns, or will they always be held over his head? I could probably understand the concerns about him leaving at halftime if he never admitted being wrong but he did it immediately and took responsibility which nobody gives him credit for. So what now is the legit concern? That he will get upset and leave at halftime again?
“can’t exist with green” and “should be 6th man” “should be off the team because of attitude” are opinions. It’s not exactly provable with numbers. Claims that someone is a good shooter or has numbers that are up across the board are both claims that can easily be proven or disproven with statistics.
No every young player does not have character concerns. That's a narrative being pushed to look past a real concern. Forget things that have occurred away from the team (which any team would take into consideration including the Rockets, when making a contract decision), he has thrown things at coaches twice with two different teams in 3 yrs. The last time less than a season ago. Followed it up with leaving the arena. Whether he apologized or not it happened. Fooling yourself if you think that's not an issue with the FO and the staff. It's bad enough to throw things at a coach, but to do it twice is a pattern and not a good one. Can he get past them. Definitely but it will take more than half a season of good behavior. Again, I am fine with an extension and hope for a great year, but it is what it is. That's my narrative on this subject.
Dejounte Murray Year 1 = 3.4pts/1.1reb/1.1ast 44/39/70 splits Year 2 = 8.1pts/5.7reb/2.1ast 45/26/70 splits Year 3 = Did not play due to injury Year 4 = 11pts/5.8reb/4.1ast 48/37/80 splits Year 5 = 15.7pts/7.1reb/5.4ast 49/32/80 splits Year 6 = 21pts/8.3reb/9.2ast 50/33/80 splits KPJ Year 1 = 10pts/3.2reb/2.2ast 50/33/72 splits Year 2 = 16.6pts/3.8reb/6.3ast 51/31/73 splits Year 3 = 15.6pts/4.4reb/6.2ast 46/37.5/64 splits Year 4 = ??? Murray was given an extension AFTER the injury and BEFORE the 2019 season in his 4th year. If the statline dictates the pay does 8.1/5.7/2.1 equate to 15Ms per year? I can only imagine the vitriol around these parts if KPJ were given 15Ms per year and then rewarded the team with a 11/6/4 type of season. Still SA stayed on course and they were rewarded with the player fulfilling their vision with a 2 way All Star since they could afford to be patient with other high level players on the roster to carry the load. Dejounte Murray once threw the ball at a ref and once even kicked it into the crowd OH MY GOD!!! I know I know its nowhere near the level of disrespect as KPJ throwing his lunchable at Lucas and then taking his ball and going home at halftime. Parallels nonetheless. Granted Murray WAS an elite All Nba defender prior to the injury and has remained a very good defender even after the injury which surely went into the decision making process, but I would say that KPJ through year 3 is a better offensive talent than Murray was at the same point in the timeline. Context? Well Murray did have the luxury of playing on a team with a better coach and system with bonafide star level players (at that time) in Derozen and Aldridge who could allow him to mature and develop without all the pressure. KPJ is being baptized by fire on the job. TLDR? Stats are not the overriding decision makers in contract extensions ESPECIALLY with younger players coming off rookie deals. Just like with drafted players some sort of foresight has to be present among the talent evaluators on each team in order to take the plunge. Houston could very well just let the market set the price for good or bad which seems to be the route they will take. Im perfectly fine with that and have only argued that locking him up now would give this team all the flexibility it needs moving forward towards a huge cap increase and roster versatility with a guy who can play and guard multiple positions. That concludes my TED talk ... I mean narrative.
Maybe post PPP in isolation and PPP in pick and roll showing the same parameters - season - career - league average? It's all about efficiency and that's something Porter hasn't been ....
He's been efficient when he has had some help and want having to carry worthless teammates. If you look at KPJ's numbers when Green finally started to produce every game, his TS is over 60%. That should suggest good things for this season
If efficiency and defense are the concerns then I would concur. If people think these facets can not be improved on I would disagree. Who was his main pick and roll partner? Chris Wood? Mr. "Nah I dont feel like setting a good screen today" ?? Lets apply some context to the discussion if its really going to be serious. I would also agree with you in saying KPJ should be a better isolation scorer, but I would rebut with him being more of a transition player while deferring the iso moments to Jalen. Scoot has an awkward, wonky stride to the basket often jumping off the wrong foot which makes me wince and then -- the ball goes in. Hard to explain when the numbers dont bear it out, but I think he was a better rim finisher and isolation player prior to this season -- you know the one where he was trying to convert to a point guard.
After digging further I remember that "isolation efficiency" had already been discussed here -- we're reaching the circular argument phase. Yes "KPJ Sucks in Isolation" is a valid statement. KPJ only isolates twice per game.
@aelliott posted something on that about 10 pages ago. https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/to-extend-kpj-or-not.316622/page-61#post-14221354 Not sure about year by year numbers. But he didn't do very well in isolation and PnR situations last season.
That stat is a bit misleading, but that is just from my eye test. KPJ and Green both have this problem with PnR timing and vision. PnR passing is very difficult, usually the window for a great pass is half a second or less. Less experienced or seasoned passers like KPJ and Green miss these split second opportunities all the time, leading them to either over dribble, or simply pass it off because the big man is no longer open. KPJ might generate a lot of point when he does pass the ball, but the problem is the possessions where he cannot make the read, which is a lot of times on the court. This could be due to natural lack of vision, inexperience or lack of confidence. This "feel" for the game is really what sets good players, from playmakers that take it to the next level. That's why players like Booker, Lavine, Bradley while great, will never reach the levels of Lebron, Harden, CP3, Luka.
You're not wong, but this was year 1 with a Jalen/KPJ backcourt. Chemistry is super important for the passing game. Hard to develop that with a flawed first day roster. If you were being honest with yourself you would say that it did improve over the course of the year. Turnovers came down for both of these guys and if we are going to use the last 2 weeks as a springboard to the 2022 season I would argue there is plenty to be excited about with the passing game this season especially with Sengun entering the starting 5 as a frontcourt facilitator. Its going to open up the game for everyone. If the argument will reside only in the black and white stats realm then guys like me dont have a leg to stand on, but I choose to not be a prisoner of the moment and would rather be optimistic that a guy doesnt average 6 assists per game in consecutive years in the NBA and be considered a "bad" passer especially with the personnel on the team. Scoot averaged over 10 "potential assists" per game.
True so then using that logic if he's a "bad" isolation scorer then he's a "great" catch and shoot player. Right?
The correct logic is 'he is a 'bad isolation player' if and only if 'he is a good catch and shoot player'. So you can go with 1) bad iso and good c&s 2) not necessarily bad iso and not necessarily good c&s i go with the second option.
