Zach Lowe: Terrence Jones could be asking for $15M per year

Good points. These guys are still (relatively) young but if they are going to make a big leap to all-star level then it probably has to happen this year.

Another thing to note is if Morey really believed these guys were max players he wouldn't have gone after Aldridge.

 

Hey I agree with that, if Jones comes out playing really well, it only means good things for the Rockets....and let's face it, that's really what matters.

 

an incosistent shooter only hustle player at the ripe age of 23 with one full season in the nba and one riddled with freak injuries? Wow . I guess that's all we all need to make a prediction of what someone is or will be for the rest of his carreer right? At 23 a player is what he is and there's no further improvement whatsoever in any aspect of his game.

If Harrell and Dekker can step up good .Especially since we can only tie Harell for one or two years before we have to pay him more.
Trading Jones or DMO will be the best solution regardless if these rookies can step up because you can't tie so much money in one position and losing someone for nothing is plain stupid.
However by the February deadline without any kind of breaking out perfomance by either of these guys their value will drop. A very low first. Because the teams can always pry them away from the Rockets if Morrey dares to enter next summer with two rfa playing at the same position. Or if not pry them away they can make the Rockets pay dearly. Think of what Portland did to OKC only instead of one team being able to do it there will be multiple teams.

 

Nothing, really. Plenty of stars get paid less than some role players on the team. It's all about the timing of the contract.

The NBA is not really a fair free market. It is an opportunistic market mixed with a lot of artificial rules and manipulations that skew the paying of true values.

 

I didin't say you want the Rockets to fail. I said that your view of Jones is not unbiased and objective. And guess what I'm not the only one who thinks this. No matter if you try to single me out , by puting in question my allegiances.
When you propose Jones for a second rounder of someoe who is about to be waived like Granger then hell yes you have some kind of problem with Jones.

As for extending them both, I find the idea of going after Durant a pipedream so instead of being in position to lose both of them and then being left empty handed waiting for a trade for Cousins or getting Durant I 100% prefer to extend one or both for a 10-12 million per that will be extremely bargain contract and can be flipped at any time in the following years.
In my opinion going into free agency, chasing after Durant with Dwight opting out and with TWO rfa next summer is a recipe of disaster. That's my opinion and I dont' care if you want to paint me as some kind of r****ded fake rockets fan whatever. I have explained multiple times why having two rfa next summer will be catastrophic and I have done it way before this Lowe article came out and often faced ridicule. Whatever real Rocket fan bballholic who surprisingly never turn down an opportunity to put down Jones.

 

Just a little reminder for those calling TJ the Rockets 'starter' at PF ...
This guy has completely disappeared when it mattered most 2 straight years for the Rockets, to the point where he has lost his starting PF job in 2 consecutive postseasons

In 2013, his D on LMA was the single greatest cause for us starting down 0-2 even with Homecourt
To the point that by GM3, he had lost his starting job to disgruntled, on-his-way-out-the-door, and out-of-position backup C Omer Asik
Overall, his +/- for 2013 POffs was -1

In 2014, he came out strong vs DAL
By the time we were down 3-1 vs LAC, he had once again been replaced by JSmoove as starting PF, even with 'real' starter DMo on the shelf
It's safe to assume if DMo had been healthy, TJ would have clearly been 3rd at PF depth chart in most recent Rockets game played
Overall, his +/- for 2014 POffs was -35

Somehow, even with another year of experience (his 3rd), and with a golden gift of DMo's injury handing him the starting PF job he did not earn after missing over half the season, TJ still managed to get benched again during a playoff run

How in the world can anyone want to lock in on a $15M per year contract with a guy who cannot even hold his starting job during the playoffs in 2 consecutive seasons?

Dmo is the starter, the better player, and the only 1 of these 2 with a chance of resigning as the Rockets' long-term starter at PF

I actually think it makes way more sense to start TJ, clearing the post for Dwight to operate with the starters
That way, DMo can become the offensive centerpiece of the bench unit as it's clear go-to scorer in the post ... TJ does not have this ability and never will
Plus, DMo can take some C mins when Dwight comes out, another option TJ does not offer

I just can't think of another situation where a supposed up-and-comer on a playoff contender lost his starting job in 2 consecutive postseasons, then went on to have a career good enough to justify anywhere near $15M a season ... can you?

 

TJones shot has improved his 3pt shot every year (26 to 31 to 35), albeit a small sample size (32% if you combine his last 2 seasons which is respectable)

His rebounding is pretty good, he's a better rebounder then Motiejunas and his rebounding % has been very consistent, don't know why you'd say it's going south or that he's even mediocre.

And who wouldn't be over matched by Aldridge, Griffin, Dirk etc? Those guys are superstars/allstars, even Green was in the running for DPOY.

 

Sorry ... I meant 2014 & 2015 playoffs ... but you get the point

This guy should be progressing at this point in his career ... instead he seems to consistently regress at the most critical times for his team

And if DM sees him as a long-term fit here, why did he just draft 2 more guys that figure to take even more of the PF minutes in the coming years with Dekker and Harrell?

 

My problem with people citing the 35% last season is that if you count the playoffs he really only shot 22% this past season from 3.

Now I don't think his shot is actually that bad, but he's probably a lot closer to 30% than he is 22% or 35% which means he is what he is, a mediocre shooter who can sometimes get hot.

When it comes to rebounding, Jones could use some improvement. His rebounding last season was only slightly better than DMo's rebounding the season before that....neither of our PF's are awesome at pulling down boards.

 

To be even more clear, because I'm certain at least a few will misunderstand, the reason I talk about his numbers including the postseason is to show 2 things.

1. Jones was worthless from 3 in the playoffs
2. If 19 shots in the postseason can drop your overall percentage from 35% to 22%, then the 35% was based on such a small sample as to be worthless.

 

While I agree on the factors you mentions (closed economy impacting supply/demand and a forced manipulation due to the cba), I've come to reset expectations in terms of how many people think along those lines. Most fans I speak to from other fan bases and a quick read of most other forums and it's clear most don't even have any understanding of the cba and current cap situation. The fact the this forum will have posters arguing the details of the vet min contracts and things as such is indication to me we have one of the more informed fan bases.....at least on this site.....barring a few trolls here and there.

 

Good point on the shooting, but what's considered a respectable rebounding %?

Jones career average is 13.9%, which compared others rebounding %'s is very respectable. Add on that he's always played next to rebounding monsters like Howard, Asik and (don't laugh) Dorsey. Imo Jones should at least be considered a respectable rebounder.

 

Neither will probably ever be even above-avg as an outside shooter or rebounder ... I consider it a wash between the 2 in both skills

The 2 major differences between the 2 is found much closer to the rim ...

Last season, bmd posted on 12/7/14 that DMo then ranked as the 8th best rim protector in the NBA at the time ...
Behind only Bogut, Hibbert, Howard, Duncan, Ibaka, Cousins, Asik ...
And ahead of Drummond, Draymond, DeAndre, Gasol
Basically, he was in among the ELITE rim-protectors in the entire NBA last season
I don't know where he finished, but I guarantee it was WAY AHEAD of TJ

Last season, BR posted on 3/10/15 that DMo then ranked among THE BEST post-scorers in the NBA at the time ...
Quote from article -
"Motiejunas has scored 225 points on post-up plays, which is 13th in the league.
Among players who have scored at least 100 post-up points, he has the highest average at 1.0 points per possession, per NBA.com/Stats.
In other words, you can argue that not only is Motiejunas the best low-post scorer on the Rockets, he’s one of the best in the entire league.
A large number of those points have come from hook shots. In fact, Motiejunas has netted 106 field goals off those this season, which is first in the NBA, per Basketball-Reference.com."

TJ will never be either an elite rim protector or an elite post scorer (IMO)
DMo is already both

Plus ... he doesn't stomp homeless people for kicks in the offseason

If it's 1 or the other in the offseason, to me, it's easily DMo in a landslide

 

And I see our daily dose of recycled BBHollic/Bobby TJones non-sense arguments have continued their course.

Only about 55 more days left of the doldrums of NBA Summer left until we can actually discuss real basketball instead of worrying about Terrence Jones' non-contract issue which he doesn't have yet.

 

When you say

you are implying I want the team to fail and lose on trades. That's totally ridiculous.

And neither is yours nor any other posters here. Quit calling us out as biased and not objective. You aren't either. My bias is in the direction of my team winning championships. My objective is to see a championship team built here.

Doesn't matter who thinks this. They are wrong. My allegiences are with the Rockets. I want my team to win everything all the time. I am biased towards my team. And I am very objective about what it takes to build a championship contender. You gotta have a minimum of 7 plus players. That is players that in any combination are better a greater percentage of the time than ALL of their opponents. We aren't there. And we aren't there specifically when Terrence is on the floor. He's not a top 7 player on a championship team. Not unless he improves significantly.

I have a problem with Jones. He is not a rotation championship player at this stage of this career. A second rounder and some sort of role player is his realistic trade value is at this time. Keep pumping he is worth a first rounder. You are the one being biased and unrealistic on that one. It's plum stupid to think a team is going to give up a first rounder for Terrence at this stage of his career.

More stupid, illogical ideas. They'll both be restricted next summer. We can match any offer. If Terrence is worth a max contract next summer we can for sure match it and keep him. Same with DMo. Or we can sign-and-trade him. Or we can trade him for cap space to sign Durant by letting him walk. That would be a trade of Terrence for Durant, Malakas. See?

You're saying going after Durant is a pipedream when cyber (and others including my sources) are all saying we are going after Durant. You saying it's a pipedream for us to go after Durant doesn't mean we ain't going after him. We are!

Your opinion is r****ded. You want us to lock up all our cap space and have to move huge contracts that are poison pills in order to make something happen next summer. Talk about a recipe for disaster. That's plum stupid.

 

My point was that there isn't that much difference between Jones and DMo as rebounders. Neither of them are on the level of guys who are actually good rebounders like Howard, Capela, or Dorsey (I know, it sounds funny) so they could use some improvement.

Interesting to note that the gap between Dorsey and Jones is about twice as large as is between Jones and DMo when it comes to rebounding. Also, Jones' rebounding percentage numbers in the playoffs were worse than DMo has had since his rookie year.

 

I love how Jones haters refuse to acknowledge that he has been pounded by injuries last year and it clearly affected his performance. He looked a lot better (outside shot excluded) early in the season BEFORE he went down.

 

What good is a pre-season stud who repeatedly disappears in the post-season to the point that he loses his starting job mid-playoffs?
And who cares about reg season injuries? ... didn't stop Dwight from returning to his dominant form in the playoffs this past year

Bottom-line: having any conversation about paying TJ anywhere near $15M a season is completely ridiculous when he cannot even hold on to his starting job in the playoffs due to poor performance (not injury)

If someone offered new prop-bets between reg & post seasons ...
And odds came out this upcoming May 2016 for a player keeping his starting position though-out the playoffs ...
Based on the past 2 seasons, wouldn't TJ losing his starting PF spot at some point during the 2016 playoffs be the odds-on Favorite?

 

And Granger is top 7 rotation in a championship team? Or a late second rounder? Right bballholic.
When the majority of both the Rockets fans and in realgm fans from other teams who are not HOMERS of the Rockets evalute him the equal of a top 20 first rounder I guess we shall take YOUR opinion as the objective one?
And matching both your rfa who play the SAME position and commiting at least 30 million at the pf position is catastrophic.

But I guess I'm the r****ded one and you are the unbiased one.

 

DMO hasn't shown nothing in the playoffs either. What's your point?
AS for what is ridiculous you can blame the market. The price has been set.