Anyone who says he's not and calls him a mediocre creator with weak court vision is the one on drugs.... Or they're not watching enough ball. Do I really have to make a compilation of lead passes in transition and fastbreak feeds... He's great at BOTH. You don't understand basketball. Also the plays I've shown are prevalent throughout the games he's played. You've provided zero evidence to support your ridiculous claims to the contrary. You've been done.... You never had a legit point.
Great point. We've already been built to emphasize Harden playmaking. There's a huge difference to the other 4 guys on the floor when they know they are playing with a guy who is looking to get them the ball all of the time, when they are playing with a guy who is looking to pass first, second, and third. What happens is they make cuts without regard to collapsing spacing on their playmaker. They follow through on cuts. They move more off the ball..........................looking to get open because they know the pass is going to be delivered if they get open. Bigs look for back door lobs and cuts. Everybody looks back door. If the playmaker drives, the other guys are moving around, moving in chorus with him, looking for gaps, looking for passing angles so the distributor can distribute the basketball. What has happened with James is there is such and emphasis on spacing that guys are not willing to move and cut and collapse into the paint when James collapses the D. They don't move other than to move back further away from the action because "James needs his space" and "the more space James has the more successful we'll be". They stay spotted up in the corners because ....... they have to. They have to hold their defender there and wait for the defender to move towards James. And then when the defender moves towards James they have to stay in the corner.....so James can deliver the ball to them for the open shot that they stood around and waited for. But a playmaker like Rubio understands the power of constant movement and can deliver the ball without having STATIONARY TARGETS to throw to. He can deliver the ball on the money in traffic with all 4 guys around him in motion. He can deliver the ball when he's headed to the rim and his big man and another wing are headed to the rim because they were overplayed outside. Rubio can see guys moving and can release the pass to the spot that they are moving to.....consistently....and accurately......before they are even open. With Rubio, instead of guys occupying spots and waiting for James to find them, they move and force the defense to find them, and then they cut and move again, continually forcing the defense to find them while the defense still has to account for Rubio going to the hole. Do you understand what this does to a defense? Do you understand that having to start and stop, change directions, switch speeds, switch men, and then run continuously does to a defense? It wears them down. On a whole different level than standing 8 feet from the corner watching James.....knowing their assignment isn't going anywhere, knowing he can't go anywhere because James is driving the basketball....period. Ball movement/player movement....unpredictabilitty. Don't know where the ball is going. Don't know where the opposing players are going. Knowing they are constantly going to be moving from spot to spot or even diving as he drives. Watch Rubio's passing videos. See how many times he releases the ball before the receiver is actually open at the spot where they will eventually be to receive and shoot. Watch how many times multiple players dive to the rim in unison and Ricky finds them in traffic and congestion. Watch how often the bigs go backdoor because Ricky is going to deliver the basketball. Watch him throw the ball when they start the move....before they are even open. Watch how often Ricky collapses the spacing and gets 3 defenders to cover him underneath.......even though......you know.......he's such a horrible finisher. Why do you think they cover the guy underneath when he is such a horrible finisher? Why? Think about it. Do you really think he can't make open bunnies? OF COURSE he can. They HAVE TO cover him underneath. And he's Houdini. They smother him and the ball is gone...gracefully falling into the hands of a teammate already in motion upward for the finish. Ricky - Pass first. Pass second. Pass third. Pass fourth. As a last resort....shoot when all else fails. James - Drive and finish first. Drive and create contact looking for the foul second. Shoot the pull up jumper after breaking the defender down off the crab dribble third. Throw it up for the finish on the pick-and-roll if the big is wide open fourth. Last resort throw it to the corner for the (hopefully) open stationary 3-ball. One guy is a scorer. One guy is a distributor. James is a terrific player. He's great at what he does best...which is score the basketball. He's nowhere close to Ricky when it comes to finding guys and distributing the basketball. Nowhere close. Ricky is a great distributor. He's jet fuel to an offfense. Ricky is the guy that great players really want to play with. Not James. Because they know he ain't looking to shoot and score. They know he is looking to feed them the basketball at all times.
Harden was the system and it was good for McHale... Bailed him out many a time... The things you listed are not exclusive to playing under McHales "system".... They're aspects Harden can excel at under any coach or system. He's just only been given the opportunity under mediocre ones. The problem isn't Harden having an inability to consistently create scoring opportunities for his teammates as woatmac mat suggest without evidence... The problem is the lack of consistent finishers of said opportunities and the fact that he is the SOLE legit creator, ball handler, and playmaker on the team. He's just been good enough to make it work as few could... But that is not a recipe for consistent success or championship success...
Two years ago it worked great. We surrounded him with 3 and D guys. Yes getting another creator would be nice, either a post or perimeter creator, but he would still be secondary to harden. Harden would still carry a big load, just like LeBron does even though he has Love and Irving. We had Parsons before but the defense was terrible as it makes it harder to hide Harden on that end. The problem last year though was harden was out of shape
So ignoring all the conjecture and debatable aspects. Tell me all the success Rubio has had with passing first, second, third, and fourth? Heck show me the championship equivalent of such a PG or player? Also hit me with the list of great players that have lined up to go play with Rubio or hell the list of greater players in comparison to Harden. Hmmmmm.
It did, but even then it eventual caught up to us as we faced better defenses that could exploit it in the postseason. Harden would still be primary, but having at least that secondary creator would pay big dividends over the course of 82 games... Especially in the playoffs. Has LeBron been able to win a ship without another legit ball handler, playmaker, or shot creator?... Which superstar perimeter player has?
I didn't say he would. But then LeBron also plays elite defense so he can be successful with crappy defenders in Irving and Love. I don't really think defenses caught up to it though. Recall our offense was fine in the playoffs two years ago.
Did Kenny Smith get guys easier shots? How about any Phil Jackson championship "point" guard? Or more recently, what about Mario Chalmers?
I think Harden is a true floor general. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. I really hope Dantoni doesn't insert some weird offense
James Harden needs to learn how to not only distribute the ball but make hockey/secondary assists as well, to be considered a real effective point guard. Right now, he is just a ball stopper just like Melo. All he does is dribble dribble dribble, step back, shoot
Look at the top teams in "hockey assists" that you're so focused on.... They all had multiple quality passers... Multiple playmakers. GS, SA, ATL.. oh and great coaching. Harden also has more actual assists and passes than the PGs on all those teams.... If Harden isn't handling it... Who should be? Harden is nothing like Melo.... What a foolish opinion.... Harden is an elite driver and finisher.... Melo isn't. Harden is an elite ball handler... Melo isn't. Harden is an elite foul drawer... Melo isn't. Harden is an elite playmaker.... Melo isn't even a playmaker. Stop relying on Chuck and Inside The NBA for your bball perspectives.
James Harden just failed to recruit one of his best friends in the league. Kevin Durant didn't want to play with him. Do you think Durant was looking for a cheap ring? No. Durant was looking for a ball movement system of basketball. He was fed up with you take it-I take it basketball that he played with Russ. James couldn't convince him. Why? Because no one knows better than Durant what James is about. It's the Kobe affect. Everybody "loved" Kobe. But the truth was they hated playing with him. He finally couldn't get anybody there and the guys that were there wanted to leave. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I can tell you a ton of guys want to play with Rubio. The Gasol brothers for instance. The whole Spanish National Team loves him. Kevin Love raves about him. Wiggins and KAT love him. Everybody that plays with Ricky loves his game. You can't find one great player that will tell you he's a bad player or they don't like playing with him. If you've played this game for any length of time at the high school level or higher you appreciate this type of player because he gets you buckets, serves them up to you on a pillow. And he never gripes if you shoot the ball. Doesn't complain about you stealing his shots or getting in his way. He doesn't freeze anybody out. Rather he finds creative ways to include everybody and get everybody a bucket. Even if you take 3 dribbles after he passes you the ball before you score and negate an assist. He don't care. A basket is a basket to him. When you score he wins.......period. Success? Look who Ricky has played with in his career. Kids and scrubs. One great player in Love for basically just a few games. And an advanced aged Garnett who is just a shell of his former self. But he's made all the guys around him substantially better when he's on the court than when he's not. Championship equivalent? Magic Johnson with better defense. He sees the floor and sees the play before it happens like Magic and Bird did. Magic was the better finisher. Granted. But Magic had a power forward's body. Skill-wise thigh, Rubio most closely resembles Magic. Magic the better finisher. Rubio the better defender. Mo Cheeks another comparable. Passing alongside Dr. J, Moses, and Andrew Toney.....He was the classic table-setter who was a defensive disruptor, very similar to Rubio. And of course Rondo. Except Rubio is better than Rondo was at his best. Rubio has all of Rondo's game plus he's a better FT shower and better in the locker room.
You really just applied reasoning and motive completely that of your own...haha... As if GS is the only team that has a strong system of ball movement. KD wanted to go to GS for the easiest way to a ring... That's pretty evident... He joined the team he got beat by and choked against. Harden didn't have a chance to convince.. No one else legitimately did, but way to avoid the point... Why didn't Rubio reel him in? Oh wait... Irrelevant. You mentioned current and former teammates that like playing with him... And dudes from the national team WOW I see you avoided the question... The answer... Whose lining up? No one of note... Exactly. Harden has gotten better players than Rubio to come play with him easily. So below .500 and no success..... Gotcha Yes Magic could finish.... Magic could also score.... So wrong there. Wrong again.... Mo Cheeks could shoot and could finish as well... He was not inept offensively like Rubio. This is the closest comparison you can find in history and it takes a situation of being surrounded by three HOF players at different positions... Elite in three different aspects of scoring and when they won it in 08.. it was before he was RONDO.... He was a minor contributor in them winning it all... And Rondo @ his best was a much better driver, finisher, rebounder, and defender than Ricky. Yet even then with Rondo in a more featured role that team never won it all. There is no championship equivalent of a Ricky Rubio. Ricky Rubio has had no real success beyond nice assist numbers and passing highlights. There are no players lining up to go play with Ricky Rubio.
286? Not worth any further investment of my time. Just want to argue and not discuss. Hopefully Rubio comes here and prove s it. Because he is going to go somewhere and prove it.
Please, do you really know the reason why KD didn't join HOU? KD has alluded to how great a player Harden is and how he enjoyed playing with him and clearly they are still close. Harden was very likely, the one reason KD even 'considered' HOU or why he was open to a meeting, despite not really even considering the Rockets. At the end of the day he left OKC, a team that was the better team for most of the series against GS - so maybe he thought, that even with Harden and the roster as it was constructed, it wasn't going to be enough to win a championship or contend for one this coming season?! As for Ricky - completely agree, big name FAs have been signing left and right in MIN. Rubio sure knows how to attract free agents, unlike Harden
Try 1. One post... To have more facts than all that you just argued. Discuss? Apparently you don't want to. I just happen to utilize facts while you prefer baseless opinions and conjecture. You couldn't answer the question in regards to Rubio because there is no answer that fits your agenda. Rubio hasn't had any real success. There is no championship equivalent. Players aren't lining up to play with Rubio.
