Leadership also counts at practice. Closeness counts because teammates play for each other and stand up for each other. Cassell later took that work ethic to the Clippers, meeting with every player for dinner and discussing how they would make the playoffs and win. leadership. not in the stat book.
DREAM = GREATEST ALL AROUND BASKETBALL PLAYER OF ALL TIME, PERIOD! Not taking anything away from the MJ's of this world but Hakeem, ALL AROUND, was in my mind, the best.
I agree leadership is not a stat, similar to what Shane Battier brings to the current team but Elie and Kenny Smith took over that once Max left and Dream and Clyde led by example. Closeness, its a rarity in the NBA. Players come from all types of different backgrounds and its rare to see an entire team get along, especially being around them for half the year. But it does make the job easier if your players get along. Also, Cassell was a born leader...anybody who loves to talk that much is
If max was a good leader, why didn't those skills translate well with his future teams? I see your point about helping cassell and being part of the team - so he wasn't a locker room cancer obvious, he just was one outside of the locker room. But I've never seen him lead other teams after he left the rockets...you know what i mean?
Iverson said that Maxwell was his best friend early in Philly. Maxwell even stayed at Iverson's house.
Are you kidding me? This isn't Nintendo. You can't compare stats of players on crap teams with stats of players on championship teams. This is the Tony Campbell argument you're making. Tony Campbell was a scrub player on the late 80's Laker teams which were pretty darn good. The next year he signs with the expansion Timberwolves and proceeds to drop 20+ points per game on one of the worst teams in basketball. If you had taken Vernon in his prime and put him on a lottery team with the offense tailored to his strengths, there's no question he would have had been a 20 point per game scorer. You're not providing this kind of context with the stats comparisons you're making. In addition, guards in the 90's could hand check you and bump you all over the court without getting a foul called and that's another reason why your JR Smith comparison fails. Vernon was extremely physical, you put him in the league today with these rules and they literally could not stop him from driving the lane. Of the players on your list I'd maybe take Hersey Hawkins and Dell Curry in place of Vernon because they were damn good players who would have fit well but the rest of those guys are either not good enough or are terrible fits for those Rockets teams. One more thing, you keep talking about that last game in Utah, the last game Vernon ever played for us. I don't know if you remember this or not but it was Vernon that took the last shot in the game. Dream was on fire that game, dropped 40+, and Vernon really had a terrible game but when it came down to the last shot it was Vernon that took the shot and we all knew he was going to take that shot. Everyone believed in Vernon's ability to hit the big shots and it's one of the reasons we won that first championship.
Excellent post. You can't replace starters on a championship team. They won as a team and built a chemistry that takes years to perfect. nor can you take away watching the team as a fan, there's something special that you witness but you can't just put that in stats or articles. you can add Karl Malone and Gary Payton to the Lakers and the Lakers would lose to the Pistons. Another thing you can't put in the stats and you HAD TO WITNESS (sorry no tapes can do this justice) is battling adversity. That's the BASIS OF CLUTCH CITY. The Rockets had adversity and turned it around by Maxwell's heroics in game 3, that catapulted the Rockets to the championship run. But Blackknight is the Mr Spock of Clutchfans, so he doesn't get how James T Kirk is the captain.
We don't know how well those guys would've fit for sure...like Tinman said, you gotta build chemistry...it took Max and the Rockets 4 years to build that chemistry. All I'm saying is there were a lot of 6'3-6'5 guards who could score, shoot, drive, and play defense. I think my list has a few you could take off, since they couldn't shoot as well or play defense as well, but other than those few, I would say most of those guys would be able to compliment that team very well if you give them a training camp with the ROckets. Some were obviously better than others, but with a player like Hakeem, as long as the 3rd best player can hit a few shots and take some pressure off Dream, the Rockets were gonna be okay. I don't doubt Vernon could drop 20 per game, but Tinman it seemed like was making Max out to be THE MAN when Hakeem was THE MAN. I know he's passionate about the 94 and 95 teams, which is cool, but Max was a role player just like Cassell, Horry, Smith, and Thorpe. Any of those guys could've been replaced (maybe except Horry since you don't find many players like him at his size...atleast not in 94). I don't know if Max would be unguardable today...especially if he shoots at 39 % and 29 %...the defense would just back off of him...and if a team is in a zone, you know he won't turn down the shot. Sure he would have his hot nights, but the rest of the nights, just let him jack up shots. Even if he got to the line, he was a sub-par free throw shooter for a shooting guard (low 70's). You also mention the fact that he was physical...would his defense be effective in today's game with all the hand checking rules?? Especially vs. guards who are 6'6 to 6'8 now instead of guards who were 6'2 to 6'6. Max played good defense on Jordan when hand checking was allowed, but by 96, that got a lot more strict. So Jordan managed to drop 48 points in 3 quarters on Maxwell and Stackhouse...don't give me the Max guarded Harper either...Neither of them could stop him. They both tried and failed miserably. Max was only 30 at the time while Jordan was 33 and less athletic than in 92-93. I think Max is better than JR Smith, but the reason I was comparing them was because they are both explosive scorers when they are hot. Either they can shoot you to a win or shoot your right out of a game. But Max is a much better defender/playmaker than him. I was simply comparing their scoring abilities, which is very comparable. I didn't get to watch Game 1 vs. Utah...so if you could break down that play, that would be nice...but I do remember hearing Dream had 41 points that game, and I do remember Stockton hit a little runner off a pick n' roll to give them a 2 point lead. But IF Dream wasn't doubled and there is no reason for anybody else to take that shot. IF he was doubled, honestly I would've gone with Clyde taking that shot since he is a hall of famer who led his team to 2 finals trips...he was playoff tested more than anybody on that team not named Dream. Also I don't blame max for taking the shot, BUT if your 1-7 and Dream was available, then you get the ball to Dream. Otherwise, if he was open, he's made enough big shots before, to where I could live with him taking it, but I would be a little iffy after going 1-7 if I was coaching him. Thats just me though. But I didn't see that play, so somebody would have to break that down for me.
The Spurs seem to be able to replace starters every year outside of Duncan...it is possible. They had Elie, Elliot, Stephen Jackson, Turkoglu, Van Exel, Finley, Bowen, Richard Jefferson, Ginobili, Steve Smith, Brent Barry, Udoka, Roger Mason Jr., George Hill, Avery Johnson, Steve Kerr, Jarren Jackson, Terry Porter, Antonio Daniels, and Tony Parker. Thats 21 guards who got significant playing time in the last 10 years...only 6 were there for a long period of time (over 3 years)...they seem to be in the title hunt every year. Lets not mention how many centers they went through post Robinson. I would think Pop would agree with me that role players are replacable...its worked out well for him. I agree taht 94 and 95 team were special (95 was more impressive to me since they beat 4/5 top teams in the NBA WITHOUT Home court advantage and no true productive power forward) So I do understand where you come from there. The Lakers added a 40 year old Malone and a 35 year old Payton...they were okay...but they were outmatched by a HORRIBLE matchup for them...played great D on Kobe and let Shaq get his. Malone was hurt for 1 or 2 games, and Payton was a non factor. Similar to what happened to Cleveland this year vs. Orlando...Lebron couldn't have played any better than he did, but he couldn't make up for the team's weaknesses vs. Orlando by himself. I know all about Clutch City and all. I know Max started it (luckily), I know all about Choke City article, etc. It was a great comeback...the Rockets were a resilient team...we showed it against the Knicks being down 3-2, we did vs. Utah beating them in Game 5 after being down by 12 late in the 3rd. We did it against Pheonix after being down 3-1, where Clyde had the flu, and Chucky brown gave us 15 points that same game, and how in Game 7 we got off to a terrible start, but came back from 15 down in the 1st half and over came 47 points from KJ and 18 points and 23 reb from Chuck. Dream put on one of the best performances EVER vs. Drob after they mistakingly gave him the MVP in front of Dream and then Drob doesn't mention Dream, but mentions Jordan and Barkley, even though Dream just won it the year before. I also know how we came back from 20 points in the 1st half, and how Kenny tied the game with his 7th 3 pointer, and how we almost blew the game again when Scott got the inbounds pass right back to him to tie the game again, and then Dream tipped in the game winner and we never looked back after that...I know all about Clutch City!!
Replacing Vernon with Clyde made us a better team despite losing Thorpe. Certainly seems Maxwell was replaceable. But I won't deny the man his due, Maxwell was a key cog in the 94 championship.
Dude, everyone thought the Lakers would destroy the Pistons, Tmac's pal, Stephen A Smith was yapping a sweep or something in the pregrame. Then the Pistons won it, and pulled this "We won it the right way" crap.
I could care less what Stephen A. SMith says...he never said anything that made any sense...he thought he knew it all, but the small ESPN fame got to his big head and theres a reason why he isn't at ESPN anymore...Quite Frankly, Stephen A. SMith was an idiot. Everybody thuoght that because they looked good on paper...people didn't take into account that a 40 year old body would wear out by the Finals, or that Kobe and Shaq couldn't stand each other, or that Payton was a non-factor.... Fans and idiot analysts don't know jack about tthe important factors of the game. The Lakers were the popular choice. People forgot that Rasheed in his prime was a big acquisition for the Pistons...they were always a good team from the 2002 season, but replacing Stack with Rip, adding Chauncey and Big Ben, and Tayshaun emerging were very important. Detroit was under the radar big time....the media hyped up the "we won the right way" crap. Also, everybody thought Cleveland would get to the Finals, including all the sponsers such as Vitamin Water and Nike, but they ran into their worst possible night mare and it didn't happen.
This was similar to the Rockets adding Pippen before the 99 season...people assumed that since Pippen was a big name, that we would be contenders... not minding the fact that Mobley wans't a point guard and he and Dickerson were starting in the back court as rookies and we had now bench. People just saw Dream, Barkley, and Pippen and assumed title...look what happened. The lakers were better because they still had a prime SHaq (slightly declining) and Kobe (coming off rape trial/knee surgery)...but Malone and Payton were very old.
I think there's some mistake. The OP asked if Yao in his prime could lead the 93/4 Rox to a championship. But a lot of people seem to think he was asking whether or not Yao is better than Hakeem. Everyone knows Hakeem would've owned Yao (and every other center for that matter) every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. I don't think there's much debate about that. But I think the OP is more interested in how Yao would rank with the different rule changes and physicality of games 15 or so years ago---and whether or not that would be enough to lead the then Rox to a title.
Yao couldn't lead that team, the big factor is endurance and defense. Dream played major minutes in the playoffs. I can't see Yao play over 43 minutes (which Dream avg for 94). Defense wise, Dream was the best player in the league that year, not only does he gets blocks and rebounds, he gets tons of steals.
I will say that his endurance was more of an issue earlier in his career, but I feel that his endurance has improved quite a bit. When the coaching staff limits his minutes it's more for injury prevention than endurance. Also worth considering: Yao would arguably tire less if he didn't constantly need to fight more than one person for position.
I think Yao at his size just has too many weaknesses...even on defense teams would do what they did to Shaq...put Yao in a pick n' roll situation on defense. With the zone, you can sag off more from your man, so that covers up Yao's defensive mistakes to a certain degree. Offensively, I think Yao would be very efficient, BUT our team would rely heavily on the 3, since teams would just double team Yao. Shaq had a Penny Hardaway to create for the team back then...the Rockets would have to rely on Maxwell and a rookie Cassell?? Big difference in talent right there...Penny was a star for a reason and Max and Cassell (at that time) were role players for a reason. I think Yao would've fared better with the 95 team with Drexler and a 3 point shooting power forward in Horry. But 94, I think it'll be too much on Yao...teams couldn't really double team hakeem 15 feet away from the basket knowing that he could drive in from there. Teams know that Yao will usually only shoot that far away or pass. Also, Yao isn't as good at passing out of double teams the way Dream did...Dream could make some amazing passes out to the 3 point shooter. One thing Yao does have on Dream is the ability to post up on either side of the basket. Dream although he was great, basically posted up on the left side of the court so he could go to the middle with the right hand hook shot/ short jumper or so that he could fade away to the left. He wasn't as comfortable on the right side fading away to his right or finishing with is left going towards the middle. Yao can shoot the fadeaway jumper on either post going to either side with high efficiency and he could shoot the hook with either hand at a high %. Also, he is 7'6 310-320 lbs...he would wear out a defender as well and no way Dream, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq blocks his shots with regularity...they'll make him work to get his position as well, but Yao can hit a 15-20 ft fadaway if needed, and trying to push around 320 lbs over 40 minutes would wear anybody but Shaq out. But I think defensively and athleticism wise, Yao is at a HUGE disadvantage to Hakeem. I feel the same way if Shaq were on 94 Rockets.
Yao had problems getting rebounds against Boozer and Okur. How about Rodman, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Robinson? Yao would be winded running against KJ and Charles vs Phoenix. He can't play all 4 quarters plus Overtime. Dream could play the whole game without sitting.
