Very good post. Couldn't have said it any better. Almost seemed to take the weight off the back of the entire city
Dude, you're just out of line about Vernon. Outside of Jordan, Vernon was as physically talented a player at his position as there was in basketball at the time. You can't watch a couple videos and read his bio at basketball-reference and then pretend to encapsulate what he meant to those teams. Unfortunately Vernon was a troubled guy and he never really was able to reach his potential or find a measure of consistency in his game but I guarantee you he would give Kobe or DWade or any player of that ilk everything they'd ever want and more. Vernon lived for those kinds of matchups, it seemed to give him focus. He's the only player I ever saw get under Jordan's skin. Furthermore, Vernon was really the second best player on those teams but the problem is his style was that of a slasher and mid range shooter while the team needed three point shooters to be successful. If anything, shooting all of those threes hurt Vernon's development as a player. He obviously wouldn't be able to slash to the basket like he'd want to with Dream and OT clogging the lane. If Vernon had put in the time off the floor to improve his game, I don't think here's any question he could have been a all-nba defender and an all-star. To say Vernon was just a role player and a JR Smith with defense is just an insult to his talent level and what he meant to those teams and fans. Vernon arguably made the biggest shot in the history of Rockets basketball, what the hell has JR Smith ever done?
I think the key here is yao "in his prime". Did yao ever have a prime? Will he have a prime? Have we already seen his prime? No one really knows. He could hit his prime after this surgery. Or we could have seen the best of him. I'm too young to really know how yao could have done on that team. But if he had reached (or does reach) his potential, then maybe....MAYBE ...
I don't think anyone in the entire history of the NBA (excluding Dream) could've taken that 93/93 rockets team to the championship. I don't even think Michael Jordan could've won it with that squad, simply because he was not as dominant on the defensive end as Hakeem was, which really was a HUGE reason why we got the ring. So quite obviously i have picked 'no', but this is by no means an insult to Yao, but praise for just how good Hakeem the Dream was. You could put any other name in place of Yao's in this poll and i'd still hit 'no'
Yao's prime is already behind him, and he won't have many more years ahead of him even he can survive this surgery.
I like Yao a lot but he would have been destroyed in the 1993-1994 playoffs. Portland was our first round match-up that year and that would be the only team I would give the 1994 team a small chance of beating if Yao was there and not Hakeem. Utah and Phoenix would have destroyed the Rockets. The Knicks and their super physical style would kill Yao in game 1. Hakeem was one of the best centers to ever play the game and Yao in his prime does not equal Hakeem on his worst day. Hakeem was a freak!!!!
I was not a fan of Maxwell when he came over from San Antonio, who was desperate to get rid of the guy - I think we got him for $50,000. Maxwell never shot the ball well, the championship playoffs he shot 38%. If he had only taken less shots we probably would have beaten the Knicks in 6 games instead of 7. I remember that series, and yes, I was happy when he hit that 3 to give us a 7 point lead in crunch time. But I also remember all the awful bricks he threw up. He was an awesome defender - but in no way was he one of the top shooting guards in the league. Clyde Drexler was a massive improvement - if we had Drexler over Maxwell from the get go we'd have a lot more than 2 rings, especially if we wouldn't have had to trade away Otis Thorpe. We'd have won in 1993, and probably in 1996 as well. In 1993 we lacked a playmaker on the perimeter to help us win the close games, Maxwell missed his shots in that series (as did Kenny). In 1996 we lacked a power forward to take pressure of Hakeem and to effectively guard Shawn Kemp. But I'll be honest as to why I don't like Maxwell. He is a disgusting human being. The guy is rotten. Forget about him punching a fan because a fan talked about his wifes miscarriage (whatever - I think he made that up), forget about him faking that injury. let's talk about him ruining Florida State basketball by taking cash and doing coke. Let's talk about how he gave that women herpes - INTENTIONALLY! Or how he was a deadbeat dad and didn't pay child support. I can not remember a guy like that foundly. I love my Rockets, but to me, the Houston Rockets are a classy team - they represent a humble, good-hearted, and classy town. Houston may not have a lot going for it, but it's filled with a lot of classy folks for the most part. For as much as I detest Pippen, he never gave a woman an STD intentionally. He never deadbeated on a kid. I mean, we're talking about NBA stars. Vernon Maxwell can punch a fan for supposedly mentioning his wife's miscarriage, and can pay a half a million to a woman he infected with herpes, but he can't support his kid huh? I can't stand the guy. You can root for him, and I'll respect that. But understand, the guy makes my skin crawl.
I am a big fan of Yao, but he could not of lead those teams to the finals. Nobody can compare with how Hakeem performed, and especially during the playoffs. Yao is a very popular figure on this board, but there is no way he could have done what Olajuwon did. Hakeem was simply amazing. Not dissing Yao though, he is still a very good player.
I didn't say Vernon maxwell wasn't a good player. I felt he was the 3rd best behind Thorpe, but I ALWAYS mentioned that he hit big shots, and he played very good defense. I do criticize his shooting though...I know he's a streak shooter, but 39 and 29%?? He makes Tmac look like Ray Allen with those %'s. And yes, Maxwell was a role player just like everybody else but Dream on that team...Thats not a bad thing... I know he played great defense vs. Jordan, I'm not denying that. THats all good. My biggest beef with Max is that HE LEFT THE TEAM...I don't see how he gets a pass for leaving the team...when we only had 9 or 10 players left and only 1 sg/sf off the bench. If we didn't win that year, Max would be a hated player...face it. I'm glad about all the things he did for us before that point, but you don't leave your team out to dry because of a contract dispute and playing time...he could've done that during the season...but he waited til the playoffs. Also with my J.R. Smith comparison...both of them are shooting guards, both are athletic, both are streak shooters (though J.R. is a much better shooter/scorer than Max), while Max is a much better defender and playmaker. Both are cocky and think they are better than they really are. I think Max is much more versatile than J.R., but offensively there are a few similarities...also what has J.R. Smith accomplished: nothing. He's a role player...But what would Maxwell accomplish if he wasn't on a team with Hakeem or another great player?
Yao could bring multiple championships if he doesn't have to play international games every summer, which means he will be fresh and injury free and actually improve his games in those summers. But that's a big IF, so we would never know the real answer. Don't forget a few years ago when yao's tearing up the league with 25+ and 12+, everybody on the board are discussing how awesome he was at the age of 25 and what a bright future he'd have. But if there's indeed a magical power to let yao come back to old times, he probably will surprise a lot of people--just like people never would believe yao can beat Shaq/DW until they see it happening right before their eyes. Sadly yao may never get those chances again, but who knows if he can recover and be a force again(he's still literally 28 and Dream got his championships in his 30's).
We've seen glimpses of Maxwell's scoring abilities when Dream was out or when the defense concentrated too much on Dream. (no Dream) Maxwell scored 30 points in a quarter and 51for a game vs Cleveland. http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199101260HOU.html He only jacked up 10 threes and made 4. (Suns Playoff game 3, post choke city label) Arguably the most important game in Rockets history, the one that gave them the confidence to win it all. http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199405130PHO.html scored 34 points only jacked up 7 threes, shot 58% he mainly slashes as mentioned before, but in Rudy's system, just like Kenny, he's a spot up shooter since the offense revolves around Dream in the post. Maxwell could have easily been a Latrell Sprewell player... on the court of course
Just a few big games OFF THE BENCH for J.R. Smith J.R. Smith scores 43 points in 33 minutes off the bench on 15/25 FG and 8/14 3pt fg http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200802220CHI.html Scores 32 points in 32 minutes off the bench on 13/21 and 5/9 3pt fg's http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200811270DEN.html Scores 40 points in 35 minutes as a starter on 15/23 fg and 3/8 3 pt fg's http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200903200DEN.html Scores 45 points in 29 minutes off the bench on 13/22 fg and 11/18 3 pt fg's http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200904130DEN.html Willie Burton scores 53 points in a game in 1995...scored 3,243 points in 8 seasons in the NBA http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199412130PHI.html Tony Delk scores 53 points in a game in the 2001 season...scored 4,957 points in 9 seasons in the NBA http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200101020SAC.html Anthony Morrow in his 4th career game scores 37 points on 15/20 fg and 4/5 3 pt fg's I'm not a J.R. Smith fan...I HATE his game and his attitude...but my point is ANYBODY can get hot on a given night...I mean Willie Burton, Tony Delk, and Anthony Morrow?? Players make it to the NBA for a reason...they are talented. Anybody can put up 30, 40, or 50 on a given night. We've seen it happen. Sometimes the basket is just as big as the ocean for players. But what makes a player a great is being able to do that night in and night out...Max had his special nights, but so have J.R. Smith, Willie Burton, Tony Delk, and Anthony Morrow...Burton and Delk are already forgotten players and Smith will be known as a streak shooter who can score on some nights. Morrow is still young, so only time will tell with him. Max had his moments...but offensively, he was a streak shooter...and he had a few hot nights throughout his Rockets career. He is a better playmaker and defender than the guys I listed though.
theres only one dream. No offense to yao, but dream is way beyond yao, just with dream's speed he can just dominated yao.
Streak shooters are part of the team. Don't forget a stat that is not listed is enforcer or tough guy on the team. the guy who gets the technical foul on behalf of team. The guy who trash talks the guy who gets in other team's face. the psychological part of the game. the guy who's not afraid to take the BIG SHOT. the guy who's not afraid to play D on the other team's best player.
There is no chance in hell, that Yao would lead that same team to a championship. If you replaced Hakeem with Yao, that team wins 20 games. Its an insult to a player like Hakeem to be compared to and to even entertain the notion that a player like Yao, of all people, can duplicate what he did, with that team. Its embarrassing as a life long Rockets fan that about 20% of the so called Rockets voted yes.
I agree thats a part of the team...but you also have to realize there are more of those type of players out there as well. Maxwell was very well replaceable...players from 1994 such as: Stacy Augmon , Bobby Phils, Malik Sealy, Anthony Peeler, Kendal Gill, Hersey Hawkins, Danny Ainge (offensively), Dan Majerle Vinny Del Negro, John Starks, Nick Anderson, Craig Ehlo, Dee Brown, Bryant Stith, Lindsey Hunter, Byron Scott, Kevin Edwards, Doc Rivers, Dell Curry, Derek Harper, Lionel Simmons, Jeff Hornacek, Rex Chapman All of these point guards could do many of the same things Max could do, and some could do them better. Max maybe more clutch than some of these players, but a lot of them shot better than max, handled the ball better, took better shots, and played just as good as defense as Maxwell played. He was good, but in my honest opinion, I don't think the result would be too much different if we replaced Maxwell with any other solid shooting guard from 1994. Is he really all that different than the players I listed? They are each different players with their own strengths and weaknesses, but they all did the same things/roles for their teams.
Mario Elie also did a fine job of replacing Maxwell after he left the team... Elie played just as good defense, took smarter shots and made a higher % of shots, and he was an enforcer/trash talked when he had to. He wasn't the creator that Max was, but we didn't need him to be since we had Drexler and Cassell who were better at that than Max ever was.
Maxwell was the better defender than Elie. Maxwell and Drexler faced off in 94 first round. Again, it's hard to summarize Mad Max, you had to be there. Funny you mention Mario and Sam. Who do you think are his best friends on that team? How do you think Cassell turned into Cassell? http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1995_1272232 "That's too deep to get into," said Elie, when asked about Maxwell's personal problems. "You'd have to ask Vernon about that. He's a good friend of mine, and he's not able to be part of the team right now, so it's tough. He's made mistakes, but everybody does." Maxwell has had little contact with his teammates in recent days, but did offer advice to Sam Cassell, whom he took under his wing last year when Cassell was a rookie. "I talked to him last night and he was telling me don't let his situation affect me," Cassell said. "He wished everything was handled better by both parties. He wants to be back. He might not say that publicly, but I know Maxwell personally and I know he wants to be back. Hopefully, a miracle will happen and he'll come back." http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1995_1309469 "He's still my friend," Cassell said. "I don't care who knows it. I know a lot of people have said a lot of bad things about him. But the guy I know helped me personally. "Max challenged me in my rookie year. He tested me. He never let me back down. He made me better. Remember the Knicks series in '94, when I screwed up in Game 2? It was Max who talked to me and kept my head up. Then, I came back and hit that big two and made those free throws in Game 3. You can't forget the good things."
Thats what vets are supposed to do...they help the rookies on their team...however, there are vets who could careless about the rooks, and therefore their teams suffer because of it. I'm sure we'll see Shane tutor Ariza on defense (fundamentally), you saw Deke tutor Yao and every other big men thats been here, you'll see Scola work with Landry, etc. But if the older player is threatened by the younger talent, they won't help so willingly (Kenny Smith and Rafer Alston) I'm not talking about friendships...I'm talking strictly ON THE COURT...From what I hear, Max was a pretty disgusting person off the court, but I don't know if all that is true...but he gets paid to play basketball, and thats the only part of his life that I could see and judge. Its great that Elie and Cassell were his friends before and after the incident, but my posts are reguarding Maxwell as the player and vocal leader on the court. All I'm saying is, he's not some great, shooting guard that we couldn't have won without...we needed a player like him, but as I put up that list, there were about 20 other guards who would do as good a job, better, or close to what Max did on the court. Max did a decent job on Drexler, but Drexler was the only player the Rockets were even worried about...he had very little offensive help. Elie wasn't as quick as Max, but he was stronger. Max was better at denying the ball, where as Elie could guard the stronger wing players a little better. Both were somewhat undersized though in height/length. Cassell turned into cassell the same way Horry turned into Horry...being around vets who knew how to win and a leader and a coach who were patient with them...and playing on the biggest stage very early in their careers and having big roles on those teams as well.
