I was wondering to myself after watching the Grizzlies vs Raptors today, if I was happy with the trade for Steve Francis. I look at Michael Dickerson averaging nearly 18pts a game, and shooting 40% from 3 point range, and Othella averaging nearly 14 points a game and shooting over 50%. What I am asking is would we be better with Dickerson and Othella, instead of Francis? I know Francis shows amazing talent, but his turnover ratio is pathetic. I think the Rockets would have a better record THIS year if they only make the Pippen trade. I am not completely sold on Francis being a SUPERSTAR, yes he has unbelievable potential, and at times can be astouding, but he dissappears and tends to make bad plays at inopportune times. I know it is hypothetical, but based on what I have seen, I am not sure I would make the trade today. Thoughts? DaDakota
YES!!!! I am not completely sold on Francis being a SUPERSTAR, yes he has unbelievable potential, and at times can be astouding, but he dissappears and tends to make bad plays at inopportune times. Francis will be a superstar along with Brand and Odom. What the hell does he have to do to prove himself of being a superstar??? He already leads the Rockets in points, assists, steals, and total rebounds. You expect too much from a rookie. There's something called a learning process. It's a period where rookie's get experience and develop into veterens. ------------------ The Mall Kid is Back! The best draft source yet, www.draftsource.net
DaDakota, I don't think we'd have a better record. Dickerson's stats are similar to Stevie's and I think K. Thomas is better than Othella ma' fella'. Besides, who'd be our starting point guard? (And don't say Bryce Drew) ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
LOL. Hahahaahhaha... OMG, every team in the league is scared, we the Brent Price/Bryce Drew backcourt. The girls mob the court and go wild.... ------------------ The Mall Kid is Back! The best draft source yet, www.draftsource.net
Steve Francis needs a mentor that plays or played his spot. In the long term, we made some smart moves by doing the trades. But Stevie needs some work, and I don't care what anybody says, the Grizzlies pegged him perfectly when the wanted him as a two guard. With time, Stevie can be a great point guard. But right now he seems too worried about making ESPN highlights than on improving his game.
Ok, I can see that some of you make very valid arguments. I do agree that Francis is a unique talent. However, his propensity to turn the ball over, is one of the biggest reasons the Rockets do not have a better record. 17 pts is great for a Rookie, I concur, but 18 points is not bad for a 2nd year 2 guard either. Kenny Thomas is better then Othella, I agree, but having KT and Othella is better then KT and Rogers. IMHO, Steve Francis is a star in the league, but not a SUPERSTAR..ala..Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, and Kevin Garnett. Maybe he will be, but not yet. DaDakota PS. to be a superstar, you need to lead your team to wins....PERIOD !! PPS Rocketsfan, NO GM is scared now of the Rockets backcourt as it is...you think teams are afraid of a team with a 40% winning percentage? Sheesh !! [This message has been edited by DaDakota (edited March 05, 2000).]
This thread makes me wonder if some of you know anything about basketball. Francis has played only one year of division 1 ball and that was at the 2 guard. That being said this guy has been tremendous this year running the point for us. The Rockets would not have a better record this year if not for the Francis trade. The reason we have such a bad record is that we have been eaten alive by injuries (Dream, Barkley, Cato, Rogers, Francis, etc.). Those of you who dont believe Francis is the real deal will surely be on his sack in a couple of years when he is consistently making winning plays for a playoff basketball team (hopefully in Houston).
Why dont u guys lay off of DaDakota? we are all entitled to our own opinion. And i was thinking of something that maybe we should have done. Instead of sending Dickerson and Othella to Vancouver, why didnt we just send pippen and othella? We knew we were gonna dump him off anyway. Why not make one good deal and keep dickerson instead of giving up dickerson. can u imagine the backcourt of Francis and Dickerson?? Thoughts?
I don't think that some of you people realize that Steve's position is a much harder position to play and learn. Steve's job is to get EVERYONE involved in the team. He also needs to score because the rockets don't have a player that can score like Steve can every game on a consistant level. Plus for a point guard to be grabbing 5 + rebounds is a plus. Michael Dickersons job is to score period. I think we need to give Steve some time before his turnovers go down. I think that if your the play maker for your team, you are also probably gonna have a lot of turnovers. If his turnovers stay the same in the next couple of years, the Rockets should do what the 76'ers did with Iverson and move Steve to the Shooting guard position.
The fact that we are even having this conversation shows that this was a brilliant trade for both teams. You have to have talent to trade for talent. The fact that a trade could even be made for the guy who might make rookie of the year and the talent to be a future MVP is really amazing. Imagine trading a Jordan or Iverson in his first year. I'm glad that Vancouver feels they got the better end of this one. Of course I wish we could have made the trade and kept Dickerson, but Dickerson was the key to the trade, since he had already played in the backcourt with Bibby in college, and they knew the chemistry would be excellent. Othella was a necessary component too. I don't know that we have gotten much from TMass and McLean out of the deal, for whom I would have loved to have traded for another building block somewhere. And remember the benefits from the trade aren't over yet, with the trade exemption we use this next summer. Francis will be a superstar in this league that we will all be proud of. We can build a team around him. If you look at Vancouver's record, you'd see we wouldn't be better off this year with Dickerson. I wish we could have traded Pippen earlier and somehow gotten Wallace, or a package of Oneal, Cato, Rogers and Wells instead. But second guessing is irrelevant, and I'm glad we have Cato and Rogers. Maybe we can still get something more for Williams and the trade exemption. I also wish we'd done a sign and trade for Sam Mack to Indiana or Golden State for another building block, like Austin Croshere. Houston will pull off some more good deals. I look forward to who Rudy and Carol come up with.
It was a great trade for us, a good one for Vancouver. Think of it this way, compare what Francis has had around him most of the year with what MD and Oth have around them (e.g., Adbur-Rahim and Bibby). The fact Vancouver has better players around them yet we have the better record says the world about Francis. You have to go three drafts back to find a PG who is better than Francis is right now (in his rookie season), that player is Marbury, who is also the player most similar to Francis in terms of style and talent. The next closest is Bibby, who was 1) the 1st pick last year; 2) now playing his second year; 3) had lots of pressure-experience in college. That fact Francis is already better than this former 1st pick who isn't exactly a bust further suggests how good a deal we got. Now if we had gotten Bibby for MD and Oth I would call it "even".
Sir Scarvajal, Bibby is a better "point guard". Francis is a better player. There's a reason Vancouver wanted Francis to play the 2 spot, and I see their point. With that said, I agree that the Francis trade was good for both sides. Pass 1st, shoot 2nd
Chuck first, Never pass: I see your point as well somewhat. Now if the Gizzards had a core of Bibby, Francis and Abdur-Rahim, that could be a load to handle. Then they would only need to work on filling out their roster with a 4/5 types (Cato, Ratliff type players would be ideal). Bibby and Francis would remind me of a young Thomas-Dumars combo, with Rahim also there they would just need to add some interior defense. We wouldn't have much a future then however, as MD, SA and Mobley are all good players but none capable of builing a team around. If you think of this way (what limited future we have w/o Francis) you have to love the deal from our end. Vancouver did OK in a desperate situation.
I only posed this question to see what people thought of the trade today. I like Francis' game now, and I hope he continues to develop. I do concede that the PG is a tougher position to learn, I am hoping he develops into a SuperStar, but I am just not sold on him as a SUPER star. There is a difference in my mind between a Star and a Super Star. Marbury is a Star....Duncan a SuperStar. Francis is a Star....a potential SuperStar..but the list is long and littered with wannabees. DaDakota
Knowing what we now know, would you build a team around Dickerson and Harrington or Francis? I think you'd pick Francis 95 out of 100 times. Or put differently: if we now had Dickerson and Harrington, and were watching Francis vie for rookie of the year honors, wouldn't we be bummed out?
Nick, Not if we were winning games. I don't give a damn about ROY or any other personal awards. Winning is the only thing in my book, and 40% does not cut it. DaDakota
Winning championships is even more important. We wouldn't have won one this year anyway. Not with Dream and Charles' eventual injuries. So we have to look forward to winning in the future... and I think when considering our current status Francis puts us a bigger step towards that than having Dickerson and Harrington. (Also wondering, if we did still have Harrington...would we have picked up Thomas?)
