Wizards turned down Harden for Beal and Singleton deal

I don't know and don't want to guess what the Wizards' actual motivations were. But it is possibly the case that paying Harden the max would be the final big rebuilding move they could make if they made it, and they'd have a team of Wall + Harden + ???. And I can see how a rational person might say it's too early to finalize, and gamble to get more with a couple more good draft picks and cap space. The Rockets face that same conundrum now, having Harden + a couple of good players being enough to field a .500 team, but they've only got one bullet left -- cap space this summer. And, if they don't parlay that into a second star, what then? No draft pick can come to the rescue, and they're pretty limited on what they can realistically get trading their other guys.

 

Yet the Rockets are in exactly the situation they were one season ago, and when it was clear the Scola / Martin core would not be enough, readily blew that up and got right back to where they were to begin with by building around a new star.

Let's not act like any roster move smacks of long term finality for any team. With great management and ownership, any team can be competitive and entertaining enough to put butts in the seats, at the very least. Of course, that's with great management and ownership. I'd say a team like the Wizards, that tries to offer up gymnastic rationalizations for stupidly failing to make their team instantly better, probably lacks both.

 

Wow, so the only reason the Rockets were able to obtain Harden is because the Wizards turned down OKC first. So much for Morey being a "wizard" or some kind of genius. From the looks of it, it seems that the Rockets didn't even have to give up as much as they did for Harden since the Houston deal ended up being better than OKC's asking price from Washington.

 

Only on ClutchFans do we see posters attempt to transmute a dumb move by a complete other GM into a dumb move by Daryl Morey, using tired, agenda-based posting. You're not going to give him any credit for correctly calculating that the price the Rockets paid wasn't even close to too much, and Harden (as we now know) was worth even more than what the Rockets paid? Really? All other human beings praise Morey for the James Harden signing, as he has made the Rockets better than Kevin Martin and some D-league garbage ever could. But you keep it real. You're here to drop truth bombs. Yes, other poster, trading for and then signing James Harden was clearly a dumb move by Daryl Morey. The dumbest. You cracked the code.

 

Slight tangent: Raptors have won 3 in a row. Currently in the 5th draft spot.

 

Note that this is no way means they get 5th pick.

 

In no ways you say? It most definitely does in some way. In a 26% way. And more importantly a ~70% chance it isn't top 3.

 

Nothing but fractional guarantees and finger crossing in the face of James Harden's 100% awesomeness.

(check this out ima double winky you now)




Your move.

 

Morey basically lucked out as a result of Washington's incompetence.

 

And yet the reports were that Morey was pestering Presti for months to get Harden. Probably because of [weird advanced metrics] and his ability to intuit what makes great players great. OKC said no, then no again, until finally the circumstances were right and they said yes. Did they say yes only because another team had said no? Kind of doubtful. OKC has denied the offer even happened. So maybe it did, or maybe it really, truly didn't. In either case, you're disparaging a GM who tried and tried and tried to get a player, finally got that player, woohoo, and now that sits wrong with you for reasons too uninteresting to explore.

 

I think you're making a reasonable argument for why the Wizards went the way they did, and as you said, "educated men may disagree." What makes the Harden move for Houston so terrific is our caproom this summer allowing us to add a significant player, should one become available. Washington apparently doesn't have that caproom (I haven't delved into the numbers myself for the Wiz, but you usually know this stuff pretty well), a huge difference, especially considering the young talent we have on the Rockets still to be developed, or that could be included to make a major deal happen. Anyway, I found the argument interesting.

 

I'm just stating what seems to be the obvious. Notice how the Wizards didn't deny it in the source that was quoted earlier in the thread. You can get defensive all you want, but it doesn't change that fact that Morey did basically luck out in acquiring Harden because the Wizards said no. In sum, Presti only said yes after Morey was supposedly pestering him for months about Harden only because Washington said no.

 

Morey can't control what other teams do, but he did his job by putting his team in position to make a deal for Harden when the opportunity arose. He (and we) were lucky the Wizards passed on Harden. But the package of players and picks the Rockets put together to entice OKC to deal with them was not luck. Have to give credit for his strategy (finally) paying off. But he has more work to do before anyone should call him a genius or wizard GM.

 

First it was the Rockets overpaid for Harden, and now it's that the Rockets were lucky to get him? Which is it? They were lucky to get a player they overpaid for? How does that even work? I don't understand your criticism. Is it that you don't think a little bit of luck figures into these things sometimes, and so you're eager to point out how the element of luck existed in this acquisition, as it does with all others? And in a system where ping pong balls can determine the fate of a franchise?

You don't think it was the least bit skillful of Daryl Morey to acquire a player nobody knew was even available, and who was in the middle of contract negotiations with his original team at the time?

It sounds like you just don't like Daryl Morey for [unrelated reasons], and so have tried to nitpick a minute detail about a trade rumor that nobody is even sure even happened as some sort of backdoor way of justifying your preconceived notions about him. Meanwhile, he's been one of the most active GMs in the league and worked tirelessly to bring elite talent to Houston this past summer. Then he did. I feel you, though. That's got to be aggravating, that he keeps proving you wrong.

 

The Rockets are not in dire straits, they have more assets than before and still have cap space to sign a max player. Parsons, Omer, Harden all right now are worth a great deal in trade.

 

There's a general consensus with the exception of one or two posters that that the Rockets' deal was better than what OKC would have gotten back from the Wizards. Are you denying that?

The Rockets were also lucky to get him, because, as I said earlier, the Wizards were offered Harden first and they said no. You seem to understand that, which means you shouldn't get upset when I mention it, especially considering the Rockets were extremely lucky in this case as a result of Washington's incompetence.

It's obvious that at least one other NBA team knew Harden was available, which makes your statement about "nobody knowing" factually incorrect.

We all shouldn't be blind homers. He does deserve credit for finally being able to cash in on his asset collection strategy and parlaying that into a player of James Harden's caliber, but that doesn't take away from the years of failure when he was unable to do so while other teams like NY and NJ, who didn't even focus on collecting assets, were able to trade for elite talent.

All I'm doing is interpreting and analyzing the facts. I'm sorry you have a problem with that. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

 

What's funny to me is that the full extent of the Washington deal was never actually reported, just that it centered around Beal and Singleton. Nobody, including you, has any idea what other prospects and picks may have been involved. So this idea that the Washington trade was "better" is you just pulling things out of your ass, because point in fact you have no idea what the other deal actually was.

You don't even know what they were offered.

This is the dumbest hair-splitting I've ever seen.

Nor should we be silly misanthropes who reach at every opportunity to disparage Daryl Morey, even sinking to inventing our own facts as it suits our purposes.

 

Lol, is that really all you have left to say?

What makes you think that there was more to it than what is being reported? You're claiming that other picks and prospects were involved. What evidence do you have to support this or are you pulling things out of your ass? The only thing I've read quotes one person as saying the Thunder wanted an established player in return, but that contradicts all other reports because if that was the case they wouldn't have made the offer to begin with.

Again, with the exception of one or two posters in this thread, there is a general consensus that the Rockets' deal was better than what OKC would have gotten back from the Wizards. You didn't seem to have a problem with everybody else who's saying the same thing. So, as I said earlier, if anyone is pulling things out of their ass, it's you by saying that there was more involved that what the sources that were not only familiar, but involved with the discussion have said.

Your desperate "argument" has come down to this, lol. See above.

Using your "logic," you can't claim that nobody knew Harden was available. If any statement was dumb, it was you speaking in absolutes about Morey acquiring a player that "nobody knew was available" in order to prop him up and give him even more credit. That was nothing more than propaganda on your part.

Nobody is inventing facts...well...other than you. Here's what I said:

He does deserve credit for finally being able to cash in on his asset collection strategy and parlaying that into a player of James Harden's caliber, but that doesn't take away from the years of failure when he was unable to do so while other teams like NY and NJ, who didn't even focus on collecting assets, were able to trade for elite talent.

Here's what I also said:

The Rockets were also lucky to get him, because, as I said earlier, the Wizards were offered Harden first and they said no. You seem to understand that, which means you shouldn't get upset when I mention it, especially considering the Rockets were extremely lucky in this case as a result of Washington's incompetence.

None of this is factually incorrect. You just seem to be an extremely sensitive man or woman.

 

Oh I didn't read any of that, sorry. I stopped after "LOL" blather blather.

Did you have anything constructive to add other than the firm belief that a package centered around Beal and Seraphin must somehow include only those two players and only those two players? Even in a world where the subsequent package offered by the Rockets included prospects AND picks? Because that's how these deals are usually constructed?

No? Nothing factual to add? So you don't know what you're talking about after all? Same news report as everybody else? Okay, just checking back.

 

Sounds like you did read my post. Also, the deal was for Beal and Singleton, not Seraphin. You should first get your basic facts straight before you start claiming that there was more to this deal without being able to provide a single shred of evidence to support that notion. Also, you had no problem with everyone else in this thread talking about how the Wizards were incompetent for not accepting the deal and how OKC got a better deal from the Rockets. You didn't jump all over anybody else and claim that "we didn't know what else was offered" in the Washington deal. It wasn't until somebody criticized Morey that you got so sensitive.

In the end, it was nothing more than a downward spiral for you... you went from being upset to outraged to combative to desperate to having nothing left to say.