much like with the original mj. people always seem to think there were scrubs on those final 3 chicago teams or something. pippen may in retrospect have been slightly overrated (but not that much, he did dominate when mj left) but he started sucking with age, dennis rodman was awesome before he got there, and kukoc has always been an above average player when he wasn't injured (which he wasn't back then). the only true scrubs on that team were the centers and even longley at least had a jumpshot out to about 13 feet. the other centers were pure crap though. and maybe i'm missing something on the hakeem and jordan's fadeaway debate. did either ever get it blocked? i've only seen mj blocked since he's come back the 2nd time and of course that's because he's old and i never saw hakeem get blocked until he had started to significantly fall off athleticism-wise. jordan was no-more proficient on his than hakeem. they both hovered right around 50% during their respective fadeaway primes and mj's drives would probably cancel with hakeem's layups and easy hooks leaving the fadeaway's essentially equal. obviously jordan wasn't that automatic if he was a 50% shooter (he certainly could get it any time he wanted so if he was that more amazing than hakeem at it he would've taken it more i think). to me, they're equal. can't be blocked, shot at a very high percentage for a fadeaway, neither declining in effectiveness until old age set in.
guess i should've made that clear, pippen was great when mj left the first time. led the team in pts/rebs/stls/blks/asts while only winning two less games than the season before with no replacement for mj signed or added. also only lost in the 2nd round on a controversial call. he did have the 1.8 sec incident and is a a**hole these days (see other thread in this forum) and did start to suck once he got old, but he was very good nonetheless.
MacBeth, I love you! You said everything I wanted to say, and I didn't need to lift a finger. Are you my long-lost twin or something?
The odds Kobe, or T-Mac or Lebron becomes a greater player than Jordan is like 1-25. Could happen, but very doubtful. Jordan kept on getting better and better--a testament to his peerless (at the time) tenacity and drive. It doesn't matter is some of those guys are equal or better than Jordan at the same stage in their careers--Jordan further defied the odds by getting better and better player even with a slightly declining verticle and pure quickness. Let's see if any of these other guys can say this, I doubt it. That said Jordan is certainly the best non-center to ever play the game--but it is debatable whether he is the best player or not.
How many games did the Lakers win when Shaq was out. End of argument, yet further proof Jordan's 63 point game, game 5 1st round of 86 playoffs. Nuff said
I think, in overall career acheivment, Jordan will probably remain the best. Now if you look at head to head in their prime, I think Kobe is close to being better right now, than Jordan was in his prime. I just don't know if he can keep it up for an extended amount of time with the same intensity as Jordan.
take Shaq away from the Lakers and let me see if kobe can carry the lakers....kobe is a very overrated player..
Both shots are pretty much unblockable. Neither is Kareems. All three are in the hands of the shooter. Once you master one of those three shots you should never lose a one on one matchup again. Because it's up to you too miss. The defender has no control on stopping you. The best part about Dreams shot was that if you really overplayed it, you could counter back to the middle with your strong hand almost immediately. Jordan couldn't do that.
I don't know if you have seen ESPN Classic games with Clyde, but he doesn't compare to Jordan. Clyde was very good, but he got 0 rings leading his team. Jordan got 6. That is a huge disparity. I don't buy the idea that you can account for the disparity in statistics, dominance, rings, and leadership because of refs.
Kobe does not match Jordan's overall talent and explosiveness. Kobe does not physically dominate opponents like Jordan did. He can still score a ton of points and drive to the basket, but he is not as imposing. People would get excited just to see Jordan on a break- away dunk. Most of Kobe's dunks aren't that impressive. Only time will tell if Kobe can be as good as Jordan, but he's going to have to be better mentally, because he isn't on par physically.
Then give him Pippen and Horace Grant in their primes, along with the Jordan rules. Or do you think an aged Horry and Derek Fisher are just as good?
I'm not even sure bryant is the best Sg now, i think Mj made his whole team better, Pippen grant where good because the opponents only focused on Jordan, Even longley kerr didn't look like total scrubs (wich they are). i think Bryant is good, but when shaq was out he wasn't winning. Jordan wa\s winning with a worse team, i do not think there should be a debate about this, it is not even close
No guard can be better than Jordan, like no center can be more dominating than Chamberlain. The odds is so small it can be said with certainty.
Bryant still isn't the best player on his own team. When he is, it will mean the Lakers' run is over.
Exactly!! If Kobe won a couple of championships in Jordanesque fashion without Shaq to bail him out, , there might be reason to talk but Jordan never had the most dominant big man in the league pulling defenders away from him and hitting him off of double teams and he still did it all.
Kobe hasn't even hit his prime. He still has nother 5 years to go. That is the scary part. As of right now in their respective careers Kobe has accomplished 3x what Jordan had. It no caomparison in favor of Kobe.
