I think that Kobe will never be better than Jordan. However, Kobe is only 25 years old and right now, he ranks #1 in Field Goals made. Do you think he will be better than Jordan? Please vote... Personally, I think no one can reach His Airness.
They are definitlely contenders for Most Overrated, Ref-Protected Very Talented Players Of All Time, but as to who will be better, we will have to see hoe Kobe responds to carrying a team as opposed to being carried...while actually winning more than he loses, something he has yet to do.
Jordan couldn't really carry his team until he was close to 30 years old. Kobe is what, 24 or 25? It's kind of unfair to say "MJ carried his team, Kobe hasn't" when MJ didn't do it until he was around 30, while Kobe is still in his mid-20s. I picked maybe, on the poll. Kobe will need to play defense 100% of the time, rather than 75% of the time. He also needs to do a better job of getting his teammates involved in the early going of games. One thing he has improved upon, is that he knows when to defer to Shaq. As well as knowing when to take over. Now, if he can learn to make the scrubs around him better, then he could be comparable to MJ. If you asked me who was better between MJ and Kobe at age 24-25, I'd have to say Kobe. MJ was very immature, while Kobe is very poised and mature for his age. Phil Jackson played a huge role in MJ's maturation, and I feel he has played a key role in Kobe maturing at such a rapid age. Had MJ been coached under Phil, instead of Doug "Step on me" Collins, I have to think that MJ would have had a couple extra rings to add to his total of 6.
Overrated? Ok... If they were carried by refs, then tell me why Stockton and Malone never won a title? Those 2 were much more "ref-carried" than MJ and Kobe, yet they have 0 rings, while MJ and Kobe have 9 together.
1) More carried than MJ!?!?!? Are you serious!?!? have you heard of the Jordan Rules!?!? I agree that Malone and Stockton were carried...less than Magic or Bird, though...and way, way less than MJ. 2) MJ/Pippen and Kobe/Shaq are more talented than Malone/Stockton anyways... 3) The one doesn't = the other...being carried by the refs doesn't assure you of winning, it just makes it a lot easier, while making it harder for your opponent. And consider that many of Malone/Stockton's best chances were beatenby MJ, and you'll see what I mean. If you want a further illustration of Utah vs. MJ, and ref protection, take a look at MJ's famous Last Shot...before he came back. You'll see what I mean...
If you actually read the book like I did, then you would know that the book was about MJ pretty much making Doug Collins his b****. It had nothing to do with referees.
I wasn't talking about the book...I had actually forgotten there was one...i was talking about the concept, the recognized and accepted double standard under which Jordan played...I have heard people argue that he 'earned it' before, but you are the first I have heard to argue it wasn't as extreme as I am saying.
He does get calls. I just find it funny that you are saying MJ is merely a good player or wahtever, if it weren't for the refs. He had the best fadeaway in the game, ever.
Better than Dream ? ? ? Dont get overrated confuesd with talent. Kobe has a ton of talent but is overrated, same with Vince. Its all relative
Never said he was just a good player...i think he is among the best competitors I have ever seen in any sport, and his ability to adapt his game, from a pure dunker/driver to among the best, if the not the best mid-range shooter by the time he originally retired amazed me...as did his ability to square his shoulders mid-air irrespective of what angle he with. I think he is among the more talented players I have ever seen...but I feel that he was given unparalled shot freedom/frequency for a perimeter player, and eventually got unparalled ref protection, and there a other players, Drexler comes to mind, who could have done as much or more had they had the freedom to develop their shots/take shots, and the confidence that they can do what they want on defense, while being virtually untouchable on offense, especially at 'crunch time'.
Yes, better than Dream. I was never THAT impressed with Dream's fadeaway. It def was great, but it wasn't as $ as MJ's, during MJ's last years with the Bulls. Olajuwon's fadeaway was nice, but his array of hooks, and spin moves to the basket is what made him great. MJ's fadeaway IMO was the most unstoppable shot I've ever seen. Moreover, Olajuwon was prone to turning the ball over when he would be in motion for his fadeaway. Anytime MJ had the ball near the elbow, posting up on his opponent, you could already count the 2 points.
I think that olajuwon's might have been a better shot on it's own merits, but when you consider relativety...ie when you consider the shot relative to the position/competition he was doing it against, and add to that the fact that a shot's practical effectivness is partly dependant on who you're doing it against...I have to give it to Olajuwon. MJ's had more pub, Olajuwon's had more merit. Put it this way...to stop MJ's a perimeter player had to come out ( not hard...maybe dangerous, but especially later in his career when he used the fade, not impossible), play tight, and anticipate...To stop Olajuwon's you had to play him from behind or foul..His rotation was as quick as Jordan's, which is amazing, but his size made his separation space impossible to overcome with reaction...and add to that the fact that when Jordan was doing it he had basically evolved into a perimeter dominated player except on the break, whereas oljuwon was the best low-post player in the game at the same time as he was using the fade, and you tell me which one would be harder to play for the fade...
And...MJ is still playing! Amazing! I think Kobe may be more athletic than Jordan. But Kobe's game is all copied. None is first. Jordan was the original. He will always be the greatest of all time. But...Jordan at his prime against Kobe at his prime (which has not come yet). That would be interesting.
What? Jordan would get his fadeaway off without hesitation. Part of it is because he set up so far from the basket (around the elbow). If teams were going to double him, MJ would be in great position to throw it to the open man, because he was near the middle of the floor.
More athletic than a younger MJ? Not even close...MJ was waaaay quicker, jumped higher, etc. Kobe is now probably stronger...that's it. The only guy playing who is a better athlete than MJ was in his younger days is Carter, and only if he's fully recovered.
The "Jordan Rules" has nothing to do with reffing. It referred to the defensive "system" employed by the Pistons to basically swarm Jordan on every possession. Back before the Bulls dynasty, the Pistons used to brutalize MJ with their hard-nosed tactics. It was actually pretty remarkable that MJ could put up the numbers he did and take his teams fairly far in those early days when he didn't have much help. The refs were NOT on his side then. Of course, once MJ's "legacy" started growing, he started getting ridiculous favoritism from the refs, culminated in his clear offensive foul on his final championship shot. IMHO, he's clearly the most protected player on the court today, followed closely by Kobe. MJ @ 24 was far better than Kobe is today. His athleticism then was a marvel, as he could get to the hoop on anyone and knew his limitations. He took some pretty crappy teams to the playoffs and put up ridiculous stats (37 ppg, 33/8/8, etc). Kobe is good, and a far better distance shooter than MJ has ever been, but he's not nearly as ferocious and his defense is totally overrated. And, of course, Kobe has the best player in the game on his side-- not his fault, but it's a big factor. The Lake "show" didn't do very well when Kobe was on his own. That's why Kobe can't be considered for MVP-- he's not even the MVP of his team. The Grizzy game is a great example of the hype that will continue to follow Kobe. He made a great shot that won the game, and everyone will probably give him credit for the victory. But if he's really such a star player, where was he the rest of that game? Why did the Lakers need to go to a final shot to beat the Grizzlies? Truth is, the Lakers role players took that game over where the starters could not. But they'll never get any credit, it'll always be "the next MJ" getting the press.
