Here's what I'm thinking. The protestant denominations have gone through a lot of turmoil in the past couple decades specifically on gender issues -- can women be ministers? Is homosexuality really a sin? Can homosexuals be congregants in good standing or even ministers? That debate has caused divisions in some denominations. The Anglican church, for example, says homosexuality is a sin but the more liberal Episcopal church (part of the Anglican Communion) says it is not -- causing some Episcopalians to leave their churches and join Anglican ones. Likewise, another mainline denomination, United Methodist, currently asserts homosexuality is a sin but the battle over whether they will continue to say so is ongoing. The Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA), a mainline denomination, ordains gay ministers and performs gay weddings, but Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), an evangelical denomination (which split from PCUSA during the Civil War), says it's a sin -- causing some congregants to hop from one to the other depending on their own view on it. And we can see how churches are falling on the homosexuality question down the evangelical-mainline divide. The biggest mainline churches are at least allowing homosexual congregants to be in good standing -- United Methodists (still fighting about ordination), Evangelical Lutheran (and ordains), Episcopal, PCUSA (and ordains and does marriages), United Church of Christ (and ordains and does marriages), and Disciples of Christ (and ordains). Meanwhile, none of the biggest evangelical denominations will even allow a gay congregant to be in good standing: Southern Baptist Convention (and most white Baptist conventions but in the Baptist tradition each church is ultimately responsible for their own theology), Assemblies of God and Church of God in Christ (and most Pentecostal denominations), Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, and the aforementioned PCA. Unsurprisingly, Mayor Pete is a member of one of the mainline denominations, an Episcopalian. Of course, not everyone in a church that officially says homosexuality is a sin themselves believe it. And some pastors may avoid ever preaching on it. But, it has been such a crucible for American churches over the last, say, 20 years that many people have used the question of the sinfulness of homosexuality as the litmus test for the church they will attend. Others will likely be led or else repulsed by the preaching from the pulpit, by the teaching of elders in Sunday School, and what they're friends say at coffee hour about what Scripture says about homosexuality. White evangelical denominations are doctrinally not at all a monolith. But I expect them to act very monolithically about Buttigieg's homosexuality. This culture war over whether homosexuality is acceptable is one of the few through-lines that unites all these white evangelical churches -- the other one probably being abortion. When they're fighting in their own churches to preserve what they understand to be the Biblically correct understanding of homosexuality, the last thing they want to do is affirm their doctrinal adversary -- a homosexual who professes the faith but who will not repent of and discontinue his sin. Most people who would have already fled to a mainline church. I think there's potential among Baptist churches to change because they each have so much autonomy to set doctrine, but there isn't a lot of actual movement in that direction that I know about. White evangelicals will say he's rationalizing Scripture to justify his sins and will question his very salvation. Talking the talk can't help him, imo.
Fascinating points here. In the end, as this debate evolves, people must start reminding folks that the whole premise of being gay being a sin is grounded only in one piece of text that refers not to homosexuality but to “defiling” your body which then gets translated in other texts. Let’s keep in my too that the text is not originally English and even before Martin Luther re-wrote much of what is now the current framework for the King James Version, it had been translated numerous times before it even got to that point. So even if we take Martin Luther as the best conduit to explaining Gods truth about Homosexuality, we are still splitting hairs over the word Defile. Still in 2020, can a white gay man win the election??... maybe but I don’t believe it will make it easier given how people still believe because of what they were told what their religion says (when it’s vague at best in the matter) if they grew up in the church.
I am a good guy Buck, I don’t hate Pete or gay people. I am actually overly considerate and compassionate towards others regardless of who they are, I just don’t think perversions as such should be normalized and promoted. It’s fine if that’s who you are but making it the norm continues to muddy the waters. Take Epstein for example, do you think what he did was wrong? Why? Is 18 the magical number? It’s the standard that is set by our society. Where do you draw the line on ethics is the question.
Mick, FWIW, this kinda comes down to: 1. most now see homosexuality as something that happens in nature, non-threatening, not a “perversion.” People appear to be born that way. 2.what many of us see as “accept” you see as “promote.” cheers
If you have to first convince evangelicals what they believe about the Bible is wrong, Pete has no chance at all.
As far as blacks are concerned, when Obama stopped being against gay marriage that really drove gay rights forward among blacks who vote Great post @JuanValdez
I wouldn't be surprised if the Black vote tanks for Mayor Pete. Maybe he needs a coming out party for them to come out.
