I don't think you're weighing this rationally. Philly doesn't care what we need and we're not their only option. We would be competing for Butler, and any team looking to contend would give up at least 2 quality rotation pieces. Gordon and Tucker makes a giant difference for Philly. The other thing Philly doesn't care about (which Thibs should have cared about) is picks in the distant future. Those are sweetners for them, nothing more. Embiid and Simmons and the role players they acquired are ready NOW. The organization is ready now. We can talk all day about what we need and what would be the dream scenario for us. The truth is we can stay where we are or to acquire Butler we have to trade pieces that are risky and hurt the heart. However we have to make this decision with our minds. If it requires Tucker and Gordon, we would be in a far better place for the remainder of Paul's contract, which we can never move. Tucker, Gordon, Knight, Melo and an unprotected future first for Butler, Fultz, Muscala and Patton would be a franchise transforming trade for us and solves more problems then it creates. I doubt the Sixers even accept that, but it gives you a realistic idea of what Philly would accept. They're not going to piss away Butler just cause of what others think of their situation. Every front office is very optimistic and will turn over every rock for other options.
You just summed up what’s wrong with 99% of the trade ideas on clutchfans. Giving up Ego and Tucker however gives us so little time to figure things out for this years playoff run. It could lead to a waste of a year and could also be so disastrous that Butler bolts. That is something that may end up happening in Philly. If Boston and Philly both underachieve in the playoffs (one of them certainly will because they’re not both reaching the conference finals), then Jimmy and Kyrie could go play together in NY or Brooklyn. Money will be lost but it could play out that way depending on how ugly it gets for their current teams.
I'm weighing this EXACTLY the same way the Rockets front office is. Philly has less than three weeks and all our talk may be worthless but they lose Butler after May. Maybe it's Morey's reasoning you have a problem with and not mine. I understand teams don't care about our needs. We have to weigh those when we do deals and I am thinking far beyond this deal about the risks, not some silly dream scenario. Perhaps we can route Knight to Sac, Atl, or elsewhere for a piece but throwing away two important pieces of ours AND our ability to do anything else for one player is irrational. I understand there will be competition but we have seen what that is and it is not some unknown. This is not flying blind as we know what Butler was traded for two months ago and that situation has deteriorated. I thought Butler's value was completely out of our reach and there would be multiple better suitors including the Raptors, Clippers, and a slew of others. I was dead wrong. Maybe some come back into the picture but if Butler goes for what Philly gave up or better then we never had a shot at this in the first place. We did not lose Butler over Gordon and picks. It was on the table. In the end we have to be a better team as a result of what we do or everything else was a worthless gamble. We cannot so readily throw away this year and perhaps next on a window. Taking an already stretched team and stretching the stars further is not the path for success. Harden cannot write that check forever. D'Antoni's lineups are no accident. Also, you are assuming that a 34 year old Tucker and 30 year old injury prone Gordon are the most enticing pieces to a young team that gave up two young starters and have depleted their assets and they are so eager to trade him to rival playoff teams in the East. BTW, I would do your suggested trade but they never would.
I cannot find the updated ESPN article or the other article that listed it or the post on here where I saw it but this is the only one I can still find. https://bleacherreport.com/articles...drama-sixers-front-office-refuses-trade-calls Essentially, it was "league sources have confirmed that at least one team has called...but Sixers are denying they have considered trading Butler."
You are weighing this the way the Rockets front office weighed it when Butler was on the Wolves, and we failed at acquiring him. Pursuing the same strategy will result in the same thing. Philly is not more desperate than the Wolves were. Butler is exponentially more likely to repair his fit with the Sixers than he was with the Wolves. He's less likely to walk. Not to mention, he still loses money if he signs with any team other than the Sixers. Walking is not hassle free for a guy, according to Nook, they call Hollywood Jimmy. I think what you're trying to communicate is that you think Butler would be cheaper now. At the same time I think you haven't really considered financial/cap implications for all parties and/or the value of a future totally unprotected pick when Harden is early 30's and Paul is mid 30's making a combined $80m. Then you say you would accept that deal? I sincerely don't know where you are on this whole thing and why. Let's just agree to disagree here, I think we've exchanged a ton of information and learned a lot.
This is my last on the subject as well. This whole thing started with IF. IF Philly trades him. Yes, they are more desperate because they have less time and if he tells them he is not staying. They were able to trade him before to give a team a window to sample. Not now and it is another failed experiment, IF. If he is going to move they will know now because they cannot risk it so that makes your first paragraph null. Obviously, if we are even having this conversation he knows he does not fit there. His value goes down in HIS eyes and he can be THE star elsewhere. That is the risk for us but one we both agree we can make work because I think he does fit here perfectly and through different means we both believe he is worth risk. I have considered cap implications of the costs ALREADY incurred this year and the costs that WILL BE incurred next year. Nothing I have suggested is different from you in the future. I have also considered why this team was acquired and why Tilman, who I am not high on, purchased this team. The Warriors steadily grew in value from 2003-2014 from $175M to $750M and from 2015 to now at projected $3.5B. I am not going to get into the different factors of why it is not possible for us to make the same jump that are obvious but it is clear as well with the Cavaliers that a championship team is the biggest driver Tilman has to increase the value of the franchise. I am also not going to get into the myriad of obvious financial reasons/advantages of why that is important. We are not giving up all consecutive picks or future flexibility. Let's pretend the original deal went through and the first two picks are less than equal to a second rounder and the next one is mid 1st and the last a low lottery as a likely scenario. On the surface the players we want to save in no way equal the value of those picks but you have to look back at TMac/Yao and the sunk cost of missed opportunities. You overpay for a winner. When Harden and CP3 are old and spent they will be beloved relics. There is no hope for a future Rockets champion until one arrives and you cannot throw away the opportunity that may present itself now in the false hope of a cheaper one tomorrow. We have a team where Harden score 58 AND WE LOSE and we get Gordon back for a night at 20. Clearly this team has greatness and has weaknesses. For all of Harden's faults, I have come to believe as long as he draws breath on a basketball court that he would try to do this and we are at worst an outside lottery team no matter who surrounds him. Pay as much as possible now at a premium to remove those weaknesses. Last year has to drive this decision. We carried a $20M anchor around all year at the cost of saving two picks. If that was two other of any kind of player, we win 5 more playoff games even if I would argue that we should have won anyway. Here were are months later and that team doesn't exist the same. The bill has to come due at some point. I gasped at the picks too, I would trade Gordon but damn I get the reasoning when you look at EVERYTHING.
