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Why Restricting Guns & Magazines in NOT the Answer

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Svpernaut, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    AR15's are acceptable means for hunting. Its not the best choice, but they are used. Frequently.
     
  2. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Building on this, AR15's are cheap, and reliable rifles that are ultra-configurable and allow you to customize it however you so desire... making it your own. Think of it as the Harley Davidsons of the gun world. "There are some cheaper, there are some better, but this one is mine."
     
  3. platypus

    platypus Member

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    A valid point. But using an assault rifle to kill an animal is overkill. The AR 15 was merely an example, there are many more weapons out on the market that have no business being in the hands of ordinary people.
     
  4. platypus

    platypus Member

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    That leads me into another observation. I know that rifles that use a pistol grip and a bayonet mound would be illegal if this law comes into fruition. But it's very easy today to customize a weapon in a way that it falls under the grey area in regulations. So essentially you can have a banned weapon but because of a slight modification in its structure it would be perfectly fine to own.

    I don't like the fact that some crazy guy can get access to a deadly assault rifle. But i also don't like law makers enacting some short term stopgap measure that will only be trumped in the future through various loopholes and quirks.

    I have to say i like the economic regulations more. Just like cigaretts these types of guns should be highly taxed.
     
  5. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    It isn't overkill, because the term "assault rifle" is bull****. It shoots THE SAME SPEED and LESS POWERFUL than a 308 or 30.06 rifle, both of which are TWO most used hunting rifles in the US. Both of those are FAR more powerful than the AR15 which is called an "assault rifle."

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yATeti5GmI8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  6. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Again, an assault rifle is only labeled so because of the way it looks. See the video I posted above. The guy changes the stocks and clip, and it looks completely different but it is the SAME gun.
     
  7. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    As Svpernaut pointed out, its 'underkill'. A higher caliber weapon should be used to take down big game.

    The .223/.556 round is designed to maim/kill humans. It is very accurate and cheap. This is also why those who like to competitively shoot like their AR's.

    AR's are designed for mid - long range. Handguns are designed for short range. Nearly every mass shooting has been short range. The naive gun crowd wants to ban weapons that are not best suited for its application, not to mention, hardly used in crimes, while ignoring the main culprit in crimes.

    If assault weapons look to scary to you and you want them banned, thats fine. But please, quit acting like its a solution to the gun control debate.
     
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    except with most hunting rifles they are bolt action or have a measly 3 to four cartridges. m16a4, Ak47 etc have 30 round mags + 1 in the chamber. They are "assult rifles" because they are most suitable for aggressive attack rather than self defense. You do not need 30 rounds before a reload for self defense.

    Svpernaut... using common sense what weapon is more desirable for a mass shooting? A very powerful rifle but bolt action, or a mediocre powered ak47 with a 30 round mag?
    I'm pretty sure a measly 5.56 can kill a child.
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    idiot. do you understand the importance of having a weapon that can fire off 30+ rounds before a reload?
     
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  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    And there is no one solution. Will banning assault rifles stop mass shooting entirely? No? Can it help? I don't know. One thing I do know. It won't make it worse. Itll only make people who play with assault rifles as hobby butt hurt.... That is the only negative outcome I can see with banning assault rifles.
     
  11. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Most hunting rifles these days, and for many years are NOT bolt action. Stop pulling stuff out of your butt. Go to Academy, and see just how many semi-automatic rifles are sold compared to bolt action. Bolt action basically gives a hunter one chance, so is generally only used by expert hunters.

    You do realize people can reload within a second? The Virginia Tech shooter had all normal clips, he just had a lot of them.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NxzrahUUTi8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    "Banned" simply means manufactures can no longer sell these weapons. They are still legal to own. Same applies to larger clips (per the 94 assault weapons ban, which is what is trying to be reinstated).

    Starting to get the point of the absurdity for the solution of gun control suggested by the naive gun crowd?
     
  13. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    The most popular deer hunting rounds in the United States are the 30-06 and a .308. See the image below. The AR15 uses the .223 round, which is MUCH smaller, has a MUCH lower velocity and far less deadly. Note, some AR15's are of the 7.62x39 variety as well, but they are vastly out numbered by .223s.

    [​IMG]

    I can go buy a semi-automatic 30-06 and be far more deadly than a .223. AR15s are popular because of their customization capabilities.
     
  14. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    idiot? That is not very nice.

    1) A 30 round magazine is not required to make a gun an 'assault rifle'.
    2) Many gun fanatics will disagree with me on this, but 8 round magazine is plenty enough. Im perfectly content with a complete permanent ban on large capacity magazines. Out of all the ridiculous ideas the naive gun crowd suggests, this is the only one that makes sense.

    3) Feel free to apologize.
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Yes, someone highly trained with no pressure can reload in less than a second. But lets be reasonable here. A rifle with 30 rounds is easier to pick off more people with than a simple hunting rifle that is either bolt action or has a 5-10 round cartridge.
     
  16. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I'm not sure if you were revering to me as part of the "naive gun crowd". And we basically agree however you have an issue with semantics. Get over it.
     
  17. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    1. Exactly, and the term assault rifle is completely made up. All rifles bought in the united states by consumers are either bolt action, or semiautomatic. Assault Rifles are what the police and military have, which have selective fire modes. Either fully automatic, three round bursts or semi-automatic depending on model.

    2. The magazine ban is just silly, because it won't save any lives. People can practice reloading a gun or rifle for a day and get petty fast. It doesn't stop people from buying multiple magazines, nor does it stop them from modifying those magazines. Many shooters take weeks to plan their attacks, so taking an extra day to practice reloading and/or making/modifying clips isn't a big deal.
     
  18. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    The Columbine kids had no problems reloading, nor did the Virginia Tech shooter, or Sandy Hook shooter (or others). These guys basically go in a trance, something snaps, and they're cool and calm... reloading under pressure means nothing to them. They are attacking and killing innocent people, and most don't care if they die doing it.

    EDIT - Anyway, I'm done talking about guns. Back to 3D printing and how it relates to the future and weapons.
     
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    okay you still didn't address the statement. Which is easier to go on a mass shooting spree with? A semi-automatic with a 30 round mag or a bolt action or 5-10 round cartridge rifle with a higher caliber?
     
  20. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Charles Whitman had no problem wreaking havoc with a bolt action. Rate of fire is not as important as accuracy. The CT shooter could have killed just as many people with a handgun as he did with that rifle, because he was at close range, killing kids like a coward. The theater shooter wasn't a good shot, thankfully.

    Lee Harvey Oswald used a bolt action rifle and fired three accurate and deadly shots in six seconds.
     

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