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Why Restricting Guns & Magazines in NOT the Answer

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Svpernaut, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Good thing people don't illegally trade files on the internet AMIRITE?!

    Once 3D printers are fast enough, cheap enough and can print multiple materials (including electronics), everyone won't want one... they'll need one. Also, the big area is again developing countries. This goes along with the "infrastructures in a box," "one laptop per child," and "self building cities" initiatives talked about at places like TED conferences.
     
  2. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    300 million LEGAL weapons make it a waste... and countless illegal weapons. It is going to take 2-3 years just to get whatever changes are planned to be put in to place and challenged in court, do you realize where 3D printing will be then?

    I encourage you to talk to your friend again. You can at least use a 3D printer for prototyping which then allows you to mill with a CNC faster, or with an at-home foundry you can create molds for mass production.

    We're not that far off. Before even half the guns were off the street (if they outlawed all guns tomorrow), people would be making them in their homes by the tens of thousands. Many people already do.

    The 18th and 21st amendments are PROOF that the government can't stop something that people want. The war on drugs is PROOF that the government can't stop what people want.

    Alcohol, cigarettes and drugs all kill far more people than guns... so again, priorities.
     
    #22 Svpernaut, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  3. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Should we suspend all rule of law and attempts at legislation because 3D printing is coming?

    I never liked the enforcement of anti trust law, and really what's the point if we can just produce products formerly made by monopolies?

    That is, unless the 3D printer monopoly won't allow us to.

    (As an aside, I think the solution, as I do with most social issues, is economic disincentives. Higher taxes, rather than outright bans (which work poorly) to stop the flow of negative externality goods. I don't see it as being such a next step that the raw material needed to produce a gun with 3D printers could have much higher taxes applied to them---so with that said, I don't really see the point of you constantly bringing up Prohibition and drugs from now on, when my view of tax and regulate, rather than ban and jail applies for all three).
     
  4. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Yeah, that's why we need stricter gun controls. Thank you again.
     
  5. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    That's a ridiculous statement, because this directly relates to the gun and high-capacity ban as seen from the videos in my first.

    Again, people on both sides of the aisle support 3D printing and what it means for individuals. However, it is going to be an internal struggle for anti-gun folks because people by the thousands will use 3D printers to print gun parts, regardless of legality.

    3D printing scares the **** out of people, and it should. But that fear should turn in to understanding and embracing rather than outlawing or shunning.

    I have no opinion on Anti-trust laws, because the internet has made information free. No one has a monopoly anymore, just look at open source projects. Our patent laws (especially software patents) are completely broken however.
     
  6. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Yeah, because arresting and fining illegal file shares has stopped people from file sharing! :rolleyes:

    The number of people illegally sharing files gets larger by the day, not smaller.
     
  7. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    You've moved from cars kill more people than guns to beware the 3D printer don't touch my guns!!! Next will be, beware the transporter. Then it'll be beware my invisibility cloak. Moar guns, yeah! 'Murica!

    How many 8 year olds have been murdered in their elementary school by drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes?
     
  8. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Yes;

    they'll also be able to print tables.

    goodbye Ikea.

    they'll also be able to print cell phones.

    goodbye Apple.

    It is obvious that a comprehensive legal framework will have to follow this new technology, or at the very least, a very rich side of the aisle will demand it. I suspect that will encompass gun technology as well. It's rather unfortunate that I believe people will suffer as a result, but it's always like this. Patent and capital holders often get their way. This legal framework will be established as an extension of old law---and as such legislation at the moment will very much define what will happen in the future, irregardless of 3D printing or not.

    That is why gun legislation, far from being futile, will be for those arguing for bans necessary---to at least begin to stem the tide.
     
  9. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    In 2010, 211 kids aged 0-14 were killed in alcohol related car accidents. 131 of those were IN THE CAR with the drunk person.

    http://www.cdc.gov/Motorvehiclesafety/Impaired_Driving/data.html

    To act like alcohol, drugs and cigarettes don't kill kids is completely ignorant.
     
  10. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I don't understand---

    arguing for stricter gun regulation complements calls for stricter alcohol and drug regulation.

    I don't even share this view, but I think the argument you are making with this is a stinker.
     
  11. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Thanks for an intelligent response bringing up real issues.

    But how will these companies protect their intellectual property? How will the government enforce any laws passed? Will inspectors be allowed in your house to check your 3D printer? Will they require your 3D printer keep a running history of everything printed?

    Without things of that nature, they will have no clue what people are printing, and good luck having laws passed that allow them to do that... and that's the point, 3D printers will for the first time mean sweeping government regulations have no real authority over them.
     
  12. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    I only mentioned the number of deaths, which shows lack of focus on the real issues at hand. The vast majority of gun related deaths are drug related, so wouldn't decriminalizing drugs then reduce gun related violence where drugs are involved?

    I brought up the kids killed in DUIs to prove a point, that yes, all of those things kill kids... just like guns. Having a discussion with more than one person means not all of my points are relevant to both parties.
     
  13. Hustle Town

    Hustle Town Contributing Member

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    I wish I could rep you, Svpernaut
     
  14. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    The raw material and files.

    3D printers still require material. Theoretically, if you wanted more and more features, you would need more complex material. Tax and regulation could be applied to those materials---from my understanding right now you can get away with a layer of homogeneous material, but people aren't exactly printing IPhones yet.

    While file-sharing has been a prevalent problem, legislation on copyright will probably have much more pressure placed on it if we're talking about multiple industries dealing with tangible goods backing the media industry.
     
  15. mateo

    mateo Contributing Member

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    I also have two guns...my shotgun and my wife's handgun. We are licensed and trained owners.

    Extremist posts make me sad.

    Wake the **** up already. We have to change.
     
  16. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]

    People are actually working on 3D printers, that create the 3D printing materials from raw materials. /mindblown

    I imagine stuff like that is the reason people are scared and don't want to get involved in the discussion.

    Technology is going to make it where government regulations are less and less effective. We can either hide from that fact, or embrace it and come up with ways as a society to ensure that we are raising the type of kids that will lead the future generations in to making the right decisions with the new found freedom.
     
  17. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    So I'm an extremist because I'm trying to educate people about future technologies? GOTCHA!

    This stuff is coming, you can't hide from it, and gun laws won't stop it.
     
  18. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    Folks is plural.
     
  19. platypus

    platypus Member

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    I own a handgun, mainly due to an emergency. But tell me again why someone needs a high caliber assault rifle, especially one with an extended clip? Last time i checked most guns in america that are used recreationally are for hunting.

    Maybe i'm doing it wrong then. Next time i go hunting i'll take my friend's AR15.
     
  20. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Contributing Member

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    An AR15 is LESS powerful than hunting rifles. An AR15 mechanically is EXACTLY like any other semiautomatic hunting rifle, it simply LOOKS menacing. "Assault rifles" account for less than 2% of all gun related murders.

    People DO use their AR15's for hunting, all the time. However, states like Colorado say the AR15's 223 round is NOT powerful enough, so you need a higher caliber.

    EDIT - I wanted to point out I was just replying to plat's sttement, I have NO intentions of getting in to a gun debate. I'd rather focus on 3D printing and what it means for our future.
     
    #40 Svpernaut, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013

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