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Why McHale is a very good coach

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jtr, Dec 1, 2013.

  1. Hmm

    Hmm Member

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    Where to begin with this one-sided post...

    Players are generally happy with coaches known as a "player's coach"... because they're so hands off... until they pick you out and start directing/limiting/affecting your game, and you happen to be a player that thinks he knows better like Lowry.


    I seriously doubt McHale has anything to do with this, more like Morey finally sat down and spoke to him about his intentions to fulfill his desires pending he could find the right team for both parties, convinced him it was as much for his best interests (being true to his market value) and theirs... for him to play the best he can until Morey can find the right situation to benefit both..

    Remember how Lin has been consistently pointed out as our one consistent bright spot throughout this season... That's probably because pretty much everyone else has been inconsistent and has under performed in stretches..

    At least a couple of those games have been lost by bad coaching... and not just the TT experiment, which itself was a coaching decision... The Rockets have many wins under their belt this season where direction was absent, and players looked lost... Plays? There were no plays... There were no adjustments... High turnovers, bad defense (things coaches need to get on their players for)... And the Rockets simply won by sheer talent which this team is loaded with... and in spite of the amateurish coaching...


    You can't be serious... The bolded "observation" you made is laughable and the examples you provide actually show a LACK of strategy and more a hands-off going-with-whatevers-available and let come what may come attitude...

    Of course, Adelman had a vision, philosophy and offensive strategy to execute... McHale has neither of those things... It's not acquiescing when there's nothing to submit or relent about... Morey is a smart GM, but he's not a basketball genius, let alone infallible... There are many significant intangible things in the sport that Morey devalues and dismisses... No true "genius" overlooks ANY piece of information, or executes a plan without taking all things - especially things he might not initially agree with - into consideration...


    Clearly, that's why the team has looked so lost and inconsistent in the early going, and STILL lapse on defense and protecting the ball... Rockets ball has been fun, but it has not been well-executed, organized example of consistency... I don't know here you're getting this observation from... I've never seen any indication of an actual gameplan... They seem to approach each team the same... same R&R offensive approach, same defensive lack of "intensity"... through ALL 4 quarters... Sometimes Harden's up to it, sometimes he's not... Sometimes Dwight explodes, sometimes he has a meager showing... Sometimes everyone's on the same page... more often than not, you have EVERYONE thinking they're the PG...

    According to you and Morey, Jason Kidd could coach the Spurs and the Heat to a championship...

    You may be tired of the fire McHale talk... but what you've presented here, is the other extreme...
     
  2. bongman

    bongman Member

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    Hmmm. What do you think the Phil Jackson teams with the Bulls and Lakers ran? Give ya a hint, it's not square and it's not circle.
     
  3. Koperboy

    Koperboy Member

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    I agree with most that you said about Mchale, though you can certainly feel that homer breeze when reading - but IMO it is just that, a weak breeze.

    However you lose some of credibility for me after I read the quoted text.

    Pops did have a lot of time to install the system, but he had to adjust a lot when Timmy and Manu started to regress physically. He made Tony the man and his adjustment was brilliant.

    How easy it is to coach the Miami - I totally disagree here. Do you see McHale convincing either Harden or Howard to sacrifice their game in favour of the other like Wade and Bosh did for LeBron? Spoelstra did an incredible work here. A player with Finals MVP and a ring stepped back and let a newcomer take his role of a leader! How many coaches can do that?

    Wolves: I think you are overestimating their defense, which is probably good enough for 2nd round exit at best. Also you are basing your opinion on 1/4 of season.

    Clippers: I think you are underestimating the work you have to put in to change defensive culture. Garnett in Boston basically did almost all the work for Rivers, while Rivers has to build a new "garnett" from Deandre's mold. Have you seen how Deandre's rebounds and blocks rose up from last year? Tell me this is not an improvement!
     
  4. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Blah Blah Blah

    Your post is a bunch of unconfirmed assumptions created by you that are based on a fiction designed to support your oppinion of McHale. Prove McHale is hands off. Hell, prove any of your post.

    I'll give you some proof that Kevin is a good coach.... .722 thats the Rockets winning percentage.
     
  5. Hmm

    Hmm Member

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    Prove McHale has even 50% to do with that winning percentage...?

    My response was on an OP that was STRICLY based on observations and assumption... skewed at that... Look at his reasoning... nothing fact based...
     
  6. Hmm

    Hmm Member

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    Secondly, the Rockets turnovers, defensive woes, Lin being the sole CONSISTENT bright spot for most of this season, Morey being more at the helm than McHale, Asik having issue with Morey's promises and nothing to do with McHale, the Rockets looking unmotivated, directionless in several of their losses and victories for long stretches of every 2nd half are FACTS not fictional fabrications...
     
  7. ThisVoice

    ThisVoice Member

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    I don't agree with his minutes distribution on Harden and Parson, and I dont think he is great at drawing plays
     
  8. tanviraman

    tanviraman Contributing Member

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    Do you have a link to the MIT study? I am one of those guys that have always argued the fact that I don't understand why people worship Pop or Phil Jackson? At least with Phil he has been in some different and difficult dynamics personality wise, combined with the best talents on his roster. So I give him a little more credit. That being said, his winning pct. for the solo Kobe/Pre Gasol year was lower than Rudy T the year prior. And Pop, people want to say he is a genius. Yes he is knowledgeable and a disciplinarian, but so are many college coaches. Bottom line is the Spurs have had 3 all-stars of which one is arguably a top-10 player of all time, they have been healthy 90% of the time over a decade. On top of that, minus Parker having sex with Brent Barry's wife, those 3 are the most mature, nicest guys to ever play the game. Of course they are going to have success, especially in an NBA that continues to have player movement amongst it's stars. Them consistently winning is because of those 3 players. Now with Manu declining they were just a (2010 version of Ginobili) away from probably beating the Heat in 5-6 games. At the end of the day, they lost that series because Manu has declined over the last few years. By the same token, because he is still somewhat productive, they made it to the finals to begin with.

    The same can be said for the game Saturday. Because Manu is still productive, the Spurs did not get blown out. But by the same token because he is not the same Ginobili, from say 4 years ago, they lost to the Rockets. it has very little to do with coaching. Pop would suck as an NBA coach in a rebuilding situation, or with alot of young talent with high maintenance personalities, or even with a semi-talented but random roster like Denver for example.
     
  9. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Lin has been the only 'consistent' bright spot? Define consistent. Is it 9-16 3 point shooting one game followed by 1-6, 0-2 , 1-3, 0-3? Is it 6 points one game, 30+ the next 2? 11 one game, 1 the next, 19 the next? Seems to me that Parsons has been as 'consistent' as Lin and a bright spot and Jones is certainly a bright spot and has been 'consistent' since being inserted into the starting lineup.

    Also, is 'consistent' defined as having one of the worst turnover to assist ratios of all point guards?
     
    #89 bobrek, Dec 2, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  10. brantonli24

    brantonli24 Member

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    I really disagree on this point. You make it sound like it's 100% due to the players, when its the coach that has to implement the system that the players play in, and the Spurs have evolved from grind it out defence in 2005 to the offensive efficiency machine today. You can't tell me that this transition is due to players or even league-wide changes, that's got to be credited to Pop.

    And that's where I dislike about Mchale. Clearly the players like him, so that's good. But you can see that within the game, the Rockets have no go-to sets, like the Spurs did (once with a Parker backdoor layup, clearly a designed play). Or even if the Rockets do, it's not effective enough to be reliable. You can see Pop clearly jumping down on players' necks and forcing them to play much better defence, something the Rockets still lack (although far more improved since Howard joined). Mchale is a decent coach, but I think he has too many flaws to help us bring a championship.
     
  11. Jake Tower

    Jake Tower Member

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    Was Rudy T a top 10 coach?
     
  12. Htownballer38

    Htownballer38 Member

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    We have a long season to go.
     
  13. bongman

    bongman Member

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    He was tasked to be the coach of the US basketball team sent to Sydney. The premise was to send the best team and coached by one of the better coaches in the league at that time. Consensus from decision makers during that time implies a yes.
     
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Honestly, your response is not really based on facts either, indeed the only real "stat" is winning percentage.

    There are three types of coaches.... those that are leaders, those that are strategists and then there is the very rare coach that is both. All three types have won in the NBA.

    McHale is exactly what the Rockets wanted, he is from the school of thought that Morey was reared in (Celtics philosophy) which is that the head coach is a leader, and the strategy comes from the assistants and community think tanks.

    McHale is not in the top half of the NBA coaches when it comes to play calling, adjustments or strategy. Coaches like Popovich, Spoelstra, Adelman, Carlisle, D'Antoni or Joerger all are better at making adjustments and drawing up plays.

    However, there are very few coaches that are better leaders than McHale. The coaches that are strong leaders are limited; Popovich, Rivers, Thibs, Jackson and Vogel are about it. I would argue that in that group, McHale is 5th at worst. McHale has kept his teams problems in house, has been firm with Asik, Harden, Lin and Jones when needed. He has stood up for his team to Popovich and has protected his team when needed.

    The coach that McHale is the most like is Doc Rivers when he was early in his career coaching the Celtics. He was (still is) criticised for his strategic decisions, but keeps his guys playing hard for him and with a common goal.

    Another thing to consider is that there are not many really coach NBA coaches right now.......

    Eastern Conference

    Atlanta Hawks: Mike Budenholzer
    Boston Celtics: Brad Stevens
    Brooklyn Nets: Jason Kidd
    Charlotte Bobcats: Steve Clifford
    Chicago Bulls: Tom Thibodeau
    Cleveland Cavaliers: Mike Brown
    Detroit Pistons: Maurice Cheeks
    Indiana Pacers: Frank Vogel
    Miami Heat: Erik Spoelstra
    Milwaukee Bucks: Larry Drew
    New York Knicks: Mike Woodson
    Orlando Magic: Jacque Vaughn
    Toronto Raptors: Dwane Casey
    Washington Wizards: Randy Wittman


    Western Conference

    Dallas Mavericks: Rick Carlisle
    Denver Nuggets: Brian Shaw
    Golden State Warriors: Mark Jackson
    Houston Rockets: Kevin McHale
    L.A. Clippers: Doc Rivers
    L.A. Lakers: Mike D'Antoni
    Memphis Grizzlies: David Joerger
    Minnesota Timberwolves: Rick Adelman
    New Orleans Pelicans: Monty Williams
    Oklahoma City Thunder: Scott Brooks
    Phoenix Suns: Jeff Hornacek
    Portland Trail Blazers: Terry Stotts
    Sacramento Kings: Mike Malone
    San Antonio Spurs: Gregg Popovich
    Utah Jazz: Tyrone Corbin

    How many on that list are clearly better than McHale? The list is fairly small.
     
  15. brantonli24

    brantonli24 Member

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    I'm curious how people judge if McHale is a good leader of players though. I always feel that Harden regularly breaks plays and ball-watches so much that I wonder does he even listen when Mchale points out his obvious defensive flaws. Maybe I shouldn't look too much into 1 player, but it feels like Mchale has no control over what Harden does on the court.
     
  16. jtr

    jtr Contributing Member

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    I have to argue that play calling during timeouts is one of the least important aspects of a head coaches job. Significant evidence supports the tenant that calling a timeout negatively impacts team scoring. The only possible conclusion is that defenses benefit more from a timeout than offenses.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Play07

    Play07 Member

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    same people who complain about mchale ISO and not having plays are the same ones who give harden the SUPERSTAR statues name here in houston and give morey the BEST GM EVER in getting him, understand this would have never happened if mchale didnt give him the kobe like freedom to do this or have & had him playing off the ball like aldeman would have... double standard ??...
     
  18. jtr

    jtr Contributing Member

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    A problem with most young super stars. Even older super stars -here's looking at you Kobe. And McHale is not shy about getting all over Harden's a**.

    Complicating the situation is the fact that Harden isolation's lead to a better PPP than the Rockets overall team play.

    Harden will develop a trust in his teammates over time. But then again, how many games have we seen Harden put up stupid stat lines like 16 points in the fourth quarter against the Spurs Saturday night?
     
  19. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Kevin McHale is the coach and coaches the team his way - FACT.
    He is not forced to run any system but instead he runs the one he wants. JVG has said in the past that Daryl Morey never tried to force anything on him, why would he lie? Daryl has said many times in the past that he does not force a style on his coach but instead he just provides information. If you listened to the Utah Jazz (David Locke) podcast today, Jason Friedman (we all know who he is) was a guest and he confirmed that Daryl Morey does not tell Kevin McHale what system to run. Jason said that they do have meetings and discussions but it is ultimately Kevin’s decision on how to coach the team. You have a former coach, the GM and Jason Friedman all saying the same thing; the coach is giving complete autonomy on how to coach the team.


    Kevin McHale runs the team during the games – FACT
    I have sat behind the Rockets bench and watched Kevin, he runs the huddle during time outs, and he does the subbing etc… hell, he even walks in front of Tim Duncan during inbound plays when as the need warrants.

    So Yeah I guess I do have a some facts.

    Do you have any facts to prove he is not involved in the team’s success? Oh wait you already answered that question. No. All you have is a bunch of assumptions based on the fact that you do not like the guy because he does not start Jeremy Lin and because you feel that Jeremy Lin should be the featured superstar and the team and not James Harden.

    And isn't it great the Kevin is willing to look at the data and use it to the teams advantage when coaches like JVG and RA regularly dismissed that data? Kevin is not so hard headed that he just rolls his eyes and ignores the data.


    BTW, Here is the David Locke Podcast with JCF. It's exceptional.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RxpIQggSTJY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Chris Jent MVP

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    Jeremy Lin is playing well this season... therefore McHale is a terrible coach.

    Now I've heard everything.
     

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