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Why is Villone still pitching?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by haven, Sep 21, 2001.

  1. Timing

    Timing Member

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    I honesty thnk Pudge's prowess behind the plate is highly overrated. He definitely has one of the best arms, possibly ever. From all accounts I've read about him though, he doesn't call very good games, doens't block balls well, doesn't frame pitches well, or communicate well with his pitchers. I don't know if you remember, but Johnny Oates last year frequently had to defend Pudge because he would not spend time with pitchers prior to games in order to dissect the hitters they were going to face. Strictly defensively speaking, I'd just assume just take Brad Ausmus or someone like Mike Matheny over Pudge.
     
  2. haven

    haven Member

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    Timing: to prove you're not an idiot, come back with a catcher who's career #is in catcher ERA are meaningfully higher than the catchers that caught the same pitchers.

    I'll give you a hint: this has been researched exhaustively, it can't be done.

    You're really one of the most foolish people on this board. You're denying something that's PROVEN. This is like saying the earth isn't round.
     
  3. gr8-1

    gr8-1 Contributing Member

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  4. Timing

    Timing Member

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    Not responding to these personal attacks anymore.

    Lalalala... lol :D
     
    #24 Timing, Sep 22, 2001
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2001
  5. haven

    haven Member

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    Timing:

    Go look it up. Even those who advocate Catcher ERA admit that it's not statistically provable. Generally, people who claim it's true say that the average catcher makes very little differnce, but that certain ones, like Meluskey, are utterly horrible.

    That's what the intelligent people who take your argument are left with, and even that isn't provable. It's an assertion based on observance. And you're advocating MORE than that.

    And you can validate such things statistically. Catchers play less than any other every day player. They also get injured more often. This allows you to compare their ERA's with the same pitcher against another catcher. Over enough games, parks average out.

    I'm wrong sometimes. But you don't even argue from syllogism. You blindly assert this utter crap, and somehow, believe you're right. You're really an idiot.
     
  6. Timing

    Timing Member

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    Your argument is beyond foolish. The whole premise of your argument is that defense basically has no bearing on ERA.

    Even if catcher A and catcher B get the exact amount of playing time, they will not spend the same amount of time with each pitcher on the team. They will not spend the same amount of time in different hitter/pitcher friendly ballparks. They won't spend the same amount of time home/away. They won't spend the same amount of time with the exact same position players. They won't spend the exact same of time with identical run support which does have an effect on a pitchers ERA. They won't spend the exact same amount of time facing particular teams/players that are slumping and streaking. They won't face the exact time dealing with certain field conditions, rain, wind, etc.

    What you are trying to do is say that we take two catchers, split their playing time and there isn't a difference between the two in regard to ERA. Well that analysis is clearly flawed and in no way reflective of the specific conditions that both catchers will face over the course of the year that will not necessarily even out. It would be impossible for catcher A to match catcher B in many particular instances thus your attempt in that type of comparison is pretty much meaningless.

    A great infield will turn more plays than a poorer one, a great outfield will make more plays than a poorer one, and a great catcher will make more plays than a poorer one. All of these things have an impact on ERA, whether you like it or not.
     
    #26 Timing, Sep 22, 2001
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2001
  7. AllenLeavell

    AllenLeavell Member

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    Excuse me guy I don't live in the city anymore I still love
    the stros anyway What happen to Carlos Hernandez?
     
  8. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    Well I know he's out for the season and I wanna say it was a rotator cuff injury (or was that astacio).
     

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