Some of you disagreed about Dierker's decision to pitch to Bonds. But come on... Villone is essentially a middle-reliever converted to a starter in a pinch. He's a 5 inning guy - doesn't have any exceptional pitches, so batters are going to figure him out after a couple times through. Now the Cubbies are up and Villone can't get anybody out. I know he's managed 7 before. But that seems like the rarity. Dierker needs to stop using his starters so many innings, when he's got a good bullpen with guys like Mike Williams that probably aren't getting ENOUGH ip.
I know! Dammit, you could tell he was falling apart and the runs were about to come. I mean even if he left him in the best he does is finish that inning so it's not like the bullpen was going to die trying to get 1 or 2 more outs.
If he had taken him out after 5 then he would have pinch hit for him in the bottom of the 5th. At least Villone led off the inning with a double. Perhaps the strategy of not pitching to Sosa with one out and a 1 run lead came back to haunt them. It led to a 2 run inning. You guys are quick to jump on Dierker any time something goes wrong. Most of the past month or so things have been going right. Have y'all been praising him for the decisions he has made? A clutch hit or 2 by Alou or Castilla would have helped tremendously tonight. There are still 3 innings oto go.
Pitchers hate being pulled. They like going a long way. They hate giving intentional walks. Most of Dierker's flaws as a manager are derived from these feelings. A managers main responsibility is not to screw up. Occasionally, I'm sure, one manager will outsmart another. But generally, it seems a matter of playing the odds. Dierker doesn't do that with his pitchers. I think that everything should be played by the odds. So Dierker lets guys throw longer than they should. This can hurt the team in the short-term by letting guys who are out of gas pitch. It hurts in the long-term by ruining their arms. That's especially dangerous with such a young team. Dierker has good instincts with hitters, but I think his past as a pitcher affects him too much there. .
<B>So Dierker lets guys throw longer than they should. </B> Almost to a man the last several years, all our pitchers credited their success to this philosophy. Hampton, Kile, Reynolds have all said that Dierker's allowing them to pitch in those pressure situations and forcing them to get out of their own messes made them better pitchers. You can argue whether its true or not, but the pitchers seem to think it helps.
I am sure that "playing the odds" is one of the reasons Villone was still pitching. McGriff is left handed as is Tucker. Mueller is a much better hitter left handed so Dierker probably left Villone in rather than having Mueller turn around against a right hander. The only lefty in the pen is Rodriguez who has never pitched an ML game.
True. But, I think all pitchers have so much confidence that they think they can finish their own mess.
**** I know we can't win em all, but this game is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. We better kick a little ass the next two games because apparently the Cards aren't ever going to lose again (they're 2 wins away from having 3 10 game winning streaks this season)
Shanna... you just made my argument for me! My first premise was that Dierker overthrows his guys because of his status as a former pitcher. Of course, they're going to like it. That doesn't mean it's true. Pitchers also believe in catcher ERA, which is the hugest fraud on earth.
<B>True. But, I think all pitchers have so much confidence that they think they can finish their own mess.</B> Sure, but if you pull a pitcher every time he gets into a mess, he's going to try too hard to force something to happen and not get into a mess, simply to avoid getting pulled. When pitchers do that, really bad things happen. Instead, if the pitcher knows the manager will leave him in, he's more likely to relax and make his pitches. At least, that's my theory.
I'm not arguing that pitchers should be yanked the second they get into trouble. I'm arguing that they should be yanked once they begin to lose their stuff, if they're better suited to middle relief, or if their pitch count gets too high. Do you object to any of these things?
<B>I'm not arguing that pitchers should be yanked the second they get into trouble. I'm arguing that they should be yanked once they begin to lose their stuff, if they're better suited to middle relief, or if their pitch count gets too high. Do you object to any of these things?</B> Not at all, but only Dierker and Hooten can see on the field whether he lost their stuff or was just making a few mistakes. I think pitch counts are overrated, and Villone has gone more than 5 innings before with no problems. Plus, he's had 2 weeks of rest for this game.
Well, you know what they say "if the 'stros gotta lose, let it be by 9 and let Sosa score 4 runs for the ol' fantasy team."
Sometime go look at the pitchers for teams that have substantially more innings per starter than others. Generally, there is a significantly higher percentage of career ending injuries in the next couple of years. The A's of the early 80's and the Mets of the early 90's both overused their pitchers, and both cases ended up with some ruined careers.
Another Havenism in the making here. You're really trying to say that a more skilled defensive catcher, who calls good games, and communicates well with his pitchers will not have a lower ERA with the same pitchers as a lesser skilled defensive catcher who doesn't call good games and does not communicate well? That's kind of like saying the quality of receivers in football has no bearing on QB rating. Hmmm.... lol Aside from the bull**** intangibles that everyone knows doesn't exist in baseball like leadership, communication, experience, intelligence, baseball IQ, etc. , it's quite clear that the catcher who throws out a higher percentage of base runners, blocks more balls in the dirt, frames pitches more effectively, and has a better understanding of his pitchers will always have a bigger effect on ERA than a catcher who throws out a lesser percentage, blocks fewer balls, commits more errors, does not frame pitches well, and doesn't communicate with his pitchers as effectively. This is pretty much common sense.
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with haven's post because I haven't seen enough "catcher''s ERA" numbers to quantify it, however, Pudge Rodriguez is generally regarded as the best defensive catcher in the league. The Rangers actually had a lower ERA without Pudge catching than with him last year. The flaw in that line of thinking, however, is that the sample size without Pudge is too small.
