He was a great player, certainly one of the greatest ever. And he was the centerpiece of a tremendous media campaign that, to a certain extent, redefined the NBA.
Yes some of these points have already been made, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this is the exact reason why I personally consider him to be the G.O.A.T., especially #'s 4,5,9, and 10. Great post
How could I not notice, I put the lists together, and bolded all of his #'s. But the context of the post was the fact that he isn't at the very top of any of those lists, yet we still call him the greatest ever. And yes he is close to the top in all of the lists because I chose the lists. If I wanted to try to make a case for someone else, make a case that he's not the GOAT, or simply skewed the facts, I would've used a different set of lists (Rebounding, Assists, Blocked Shots, and D.P.O.Y. awards).
Jordan played in a league with 28-30 teams, Russell and Chamberlain played in a league with 8-9 teams.
I've always believed that there is no such thing as GOAT. There is never a fair way to compare players across different eras. It's a subjective thing. For people who say, "You just need to watch him play." Well the old folks could say the same thing about Wilt or other players. In fact, I'd say the same thing about Magic Johnson.
B/c he was elite on BOTH ends, and has the most Finals MVPs of any player who can claim that. Pretty simple.
Lol it was only possible to average 50 points a game before or during Wilt's era because the pace was ridiculously fast. The average team scored 119 points when Wilt had his career high. Baylor also had his career high during that year. No one even puts Baylor in the top 10. MJ averaged 30 points his entire career on nearly 50% FG and Wilt averaged the same amount of points despite bloated stats and playing when the game was still in its early stages. As for why MJ is the GOAT. Combination of accolades 5 MVPS 6 FMVPS 1 DPOY with great team success and monstrous stats. Wilt had the accolades and great stats but he did not have the team success especially in the playoffs where his play dropped from the regular season. Russell had great team success but he was not a good player offensively and his teams were historically stacked. Of the greats only Kareem and Russell have an argument against MJ. Wilt does not because he only managed to win 2 championships and 1 FMVP while Russell won 11 championships. Even when Wilt had a supporting cast on par with Russell's the Celtics got the better of him most of the time. Individual stats are nice but Russell's intangibles, chemistry with his teammates, the Celtic's great system, and his impact on the defensive end helped him win against Wilt. Kareem has an argument due to many accolades, great stats, and insane longevity. The rest of the greats are inferior in accolades, and stats.
I just skimmed through all posts before yours, i didn't see anyone bringing Lebron into this discussion other than you!!!
I think the reason the stats/rankings are rather unexpectadly against MJ's favour is because they are out of context. First of all, you have the Celtics 13 titles in the Bill Russell Era. This automatically puts everyone in that starting lineup in higher positions than Jordan. Then you take into account that the Celtics team was the ultimate superteam (5 All-stars, much better than the Current Heat big 3, or Lakers big 4). You also need to take into account that MJ had a relatively short career. He was gone for 1.5 seasons (all us Rockets fans know all to well it wasn't 2 full seasons), plus he retired on top of his game (meaning he retired earlier than necessary. He only played in 11 and a half seasons not including the Wizards stint (my math sucks so corrrect me if I'm wrong). Now you see Kareem ranked above MJ in many stats, but keep in mind these are total career stats and Kareem played 20+seasons. Now if you were to get all those stats ad then average them by number of seasons played, where does MJ rank now?
Good point OP. It is very widely agreed that he is the best ever, but after seeing all those stats I am also wondering why. How does somebody average 50 points a game, how is that even possible?
For me its an emotional response. MJ defined greatness for an entire generation of basketball fans. We remember his big games (flu game), his big shots (over Ehlo and Russell), and spectacular plays (too many). As the years have passed since his retirement we are constantly in search of the next Mike. Kobe was close, but he just didn't get to that level. Lebron is next in line, but to me he will always be a player that bailed on his team to find the easy path to a ring. Whether true or not, we tell ourselves that MJ wouldn't have done that; MJ wouldn't have vanished against the Mavs either. Then there is the fact that Lebron is the greatest physical specimen ever. When we retell the legend of Michael we recall that he didn't make his HS varsity team and was passed over by two teams in the draft. Lebron on the other hand was a consensus number 1 pick when he was in middle school. There is just something inherently satisfying about seeing MJ, who may not have been the most gifted, called the greatest of all time.
If you handicap for size he's the best! Otherwise in terms of pure value, if you somehow had an all time draft, gm's would be taking centers over mj in the 90's rules for sure, & probably even under today's rules (for winnign only, leaving marketing out of it). I don't handicap for size, or else pg's might be goats, but if you're a big you also can,t have any weaknesses- you can't be a ft shooting liability at the end of the game. If your team is ever better, in any situation with you on the bench, you are ineligible for goat. Rings vs. Stats & skills- I look at having rings as merely a prerequisite for being in the GOAT discussion, a box that must be checked to get in, then you're judged on your greatness, skills, & how much you carried your team, how well rounded your game is & if you mastered every facet of the game, as opposed to purely ranking by rings. Keeps the robert horry factor out of it, but makes sure your goat still got it done. Then you have the peak vs. Total Resume goatness aspect- who did it best for longest, or who was greatest during their best couple of years. Who would you take for one year- dream at his greatest or mj?
*Warning, true Homer response coming* But I always take Dream. Dream at his greatest could drastically improve the TEAM defense, MJ would only improve us statistically from a 1 on 1 aspect. And who am I kidding, Hakeem IS a Rocket, I'll always take Hakeem!!! Lol
I know that if Jordan didnt retire we would not have any championships and our championship teams would have beat the Shaq and Kobe Lakers.Everybody is saying that athletes are bigger and faster now like Jordan plyed in the fifties. dude would smash any player in the N.B.A and Kobe shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence.I would take #34 the dream over Kobe any day.
