1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Why does Harden insist on playing hero ball?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by shortfuse3, Apr 26, 2014.

  1. shortfuse3

    shortfuse3 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    3,912
    Likes Received:
    59
    Hero ball is when Harden refuses to post up Dwight or run a pick and roll with Dwight, and decides that HE is going to score all on his own.

    He would rather dance with the ball and score that way because for some reason he has this, "Me against the world" mentality.

    As a result you have 4 other guys who are just standing around watching Harden dance with the ball for 20 seconds. The worst is when he decides to pass at the last second of his dance and we now have to hoist up a terrible shot.

    I would be fine if he was doing this at the end of the quarters, but he does this all the damn time. In games 1 and 2 he did this early in the first and second quarter, because he was on a mission to prove he could score against anyone one on one. It looks great when he makes it, but when he misses (which is often), you have a stagnant offense and 4 other guys not in rhythm.

    It's a selfish mentality that our coaches are trying hard to make him stop doing. If you noticed in game 3 there were a lot less iso's in the first 3 quarters, but he reverted back to his old self in the 4th.
     
  2. mockster

    mockster Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,351
    Likes Received:
    2,859
    People here are dumb. Harden scored 37 and if he didn't we would of lost. You give it to your star player end of story. Just look at Kobe and mj. I wish harden could make better descions but their opinions were slim. Harden needs the ball in crunch time every time.
     
  3. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    It's really pretty simple. We give the ball to Harden at crunch time because he's really good in those situations.

    Here's his clutch stats from the season:

    Last 5 minutes down by 5 or less
    FG% : 50% 3FG%: 50%

    Last 3 minutes down by 5 or less
    FG%: 54% 3FG%: 45.5%

    Last 1 minute down by 5 or less
    FG%: 52.9% 3FG%: 50%

    Last 30 sec down by 3 or less
    FG%: 66.7% 3FG%: 60%

    Last 10 sec down by 3 or less
    FG%: 57.1% 3FG%: 50%

    Last 5 min +/- 5 points
    FG%: 43.8% 3FG%: 45.8%

    Last 3 min +/- 5 points
    FG%: 46.3% 3FG%: 35.7%

    Last 1 min +/- 5 points
    FG%: 44% 3FG%: 50%

    Last 30 sec +/- 3 points
    FG%: 54% 3FG%: 60%

    Last 10 sec +/- 3 points
    FG%: 50% 3FG%: 50%

    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=201935&groupFeedtype=clutch

    For comparision, here's KD ,Lebron, CP3 and Steph Curry's clutch stats:

    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=201142&groupFeedtype=clutch

    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=2544&groupFeedtype=clutch

    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=101108&groupFeedtype=clutch

    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=201939&groupFeedtype=clutch

    Basically, we give the ball to Harden at the end of game because he's been ridiculously good in those situations. If you're lucky enough to have the best clutch player in the game then why wouldn't you give him the ball in those situations?

    Take a look at those percentages and then tell me what you would prefer the Rockets to do instead?

    We are doing nothing more than going with the highest percentage play. Does it work every time ? No, but nothing does.

    The guys been phenomenally clutch this year and now all of a sudden he sucks? Really?
     
  4. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    13,534
    Likes Received:
    10,525
    Shooters especially are very finicky creatures. Harden was getting back into rhythm for Game 3 and will get his shot back eventually.
     
  5. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    26,383
    Likes Received:
    29,559
    It's not that simple. We need to separate two ideas here.

    1. Do we need Harden to play well with the rest of the team to win?
    YES.
    2. After a variety of things built and sustained a small lead throughout the game, do we need Harden to dribble out the shot clock for every possession in the last 4 minutes?
    NO.
     
  6. steady

    steady Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    38
    Here is a viewpoint from the Blazers' perspective. I just put it out there for discussion; I know it's a Blazers' article so suspect.

    Excerpts from a BlazersEdge article about Game 3:

    The Blazers and their fans have more to mourn about this evening than to fear.

    You wouldn't have guessed such from the opening minutes of this game, which featured Dwight Howard and Patrick Beverley carving through Portland's defense like a Chopped chef through chickpeas. Houston's inside-outside game was on full display with three-pointers, dunks, layups, and even a couple of free throws. The Rockets built an 11-4 lead, looking pretty scary in the process. For the first time in the series (at least for any extended period) they proved willing to attack Portland's weak points on defense instead of going through their strongest offensive players no matter what. For a little while it didn't seem to matter who shot for Houston as long as they scored. While they kept it up, it worked.

    [In the third quarter,] the Rockets ran screens to good effect, played their usual "Three or the Key" style of offense, and managed a 27-23 lead in the period

    [In the fourth quarter,] the Rockets, benefited and suffered in equal measure from Harden gaining a head of steam. As the quarter progressed their offense became more isolation-heavy. The excellent screens and team-ball which had foiled the Blazers earlier in the game disappeared under a flurry of Harden dribbles, broken only by somewhat weaker imitations from Jeremy Lin. Harden's presence did put pressure on the Blazers, but they handled it well. Wesley Matthews did a fantastic job staying in front of him and making life difficult. The result was slow, predictable offense capped by misses from Harden...playing right into Portland's hands.

    ... With Howard free throws and Harden bricks comprising their only offense for the past 4 minutes, the Rockets looked to be in trouble. Isolation ball had wilted their momentum. They weren't even spacing the floor for Harden anymore. Lin stood at incorrect angles, Howard kept his man too close to the lane, everybody stood watching James work for tough misses.

    ...

    This game did nothing to demonstrate that the Rockets are smart, mature, or aware of their surroundings. If anything they continue to look the opposite when the game matters. They're good. They have a dominant advantage or two. But barring further evidence to the contrary, they seem intent on blundering through this series and seeing where their talent will take them instead of actually knuckling down and winning it.
     
  7. ksny15

    ksny15 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    14,766
    Likes Received:
    7,409
    Dumb thread
     
  8. TheJet

    TheJet Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    276
    Again, I disagree. You're assuming he's trying to score because he's selfish. Did you consider that he's the best scorer we have? And you're convinced he's "on a mission" to prove he's better and can score vs anyone. That's total conjecture. Maybe he's just trying to hit some shots so that his team can, ya know, win? Maybe he's doing what his coach is instructing? Maybe he's really a robot and has a virus? Seriously though, I see you getting upset over things that you perceive (selfishness, apathy towards his team, etc) but those are just opinions.

    How about this: If I know I can rebuild a car engine in a day with minimal mistakes, why would I give my car to someone that may take five days and make more mistakes? Is it selfish that I want my engine to be built correctly and on time? Am I playing hero mechanic? Just an example. We need a TEAM of good mechanics that compliment each other. But when the chips are down and something needs to be done, you give the job to the best performer.

    Once again I'm not defending Harden's flaws. I just think you are convinced he's a selfish chucker that doesn't give a damn about winning. And that's why I disagree.
     
  9. TheJet

    TheJet Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    276
    Thanks for the stats. This speaks volumes. And no, it doesn't mean it always has to be the Harden show. But when it comes down to a single possession or two and you need a bucket, letting him create is our best option, even when he doesn't end up taking the shot.
     
  10. JBar

    JBar Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    17
    Harden plays a lot of hero ball because he's so great at it. In the last three minutes of close games, Harden has a TS% of 63.5 and a usage rate of 40%. Those are incredible figures in combination. Lin, with an even better TS% but a much lower usage%, makes a good second option. Check out the stats at the beginning of the following thread:


    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=253189
     
  11. shortfuse3

    shortfuse3 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    3,912
    Likes Received:
    59
    In that scenario you're thinking you are the GOAT mechanic, which may or may not be true.

    In Harden's scenario he thinks his ISO play is the GOAT option, which is definitely not true. Whenever he takes 5-6 stationary dribbles it's a bad possession, even if he makes the shot.

    The best scenario for a championship team is to play as a team, spread the ball, and keep the defense on their toes.
     
  12. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,027
    Likes Received:
    12,019
    I have read lots of complaints about this and to me, all season, it has looked like something they practice.

    Then on a recent podcast, I want to say The Lowe Post, Lowe or his guest were praising Harden as the best in the league at rifling passes to 3 point shooters as the clock is going down the exact second defenders take 1 step away from their man and towards him. Sometimes it may look like a terrible shot, but I think for the most part this is something the team works on and the shots they usualy get aren't bad.
     
  13. edlkf

    edlkf Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    15
    Yes, when you don't have a good coach.
     
  14. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,914
    You guys really misunderstand the "pass it off at the last second" move. That is by design and creates good looks often.
     
  15. Exiled

    Exiled Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    1,185
    Yup very indeed
     
  16. seeingred

    seeingred Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    591
    I think we're all pissed because McHale's "read and react (kinda but not really" offense breaks down when the pressure is on. Unlike a set play that a young player has run hundreds of times in the regular season, McHale's offense requires all the players (not just the guy with the ball) to constantly make decisions based on how the defense is reacting.

    The offense is too complicated. the players "read the defense" differently and so it looks as though they're bumbling around getting in each other's way. They waste time setting weak picks that don't get anyone free, don't cause a favorable switch, don't do a god damned thing. After 12 seconds of this crap whoever has the ball gives it to harden and backs away.

    I don't like harden dribbling the clock out and jacking up a contested, step back jumper. But with Howard getting hacked every time he touches the ball and the rest of the team being confused on how to move within the offense - Harden at the 3 pt line with everyone else spread out is what you're going to get in the last 5 minutes.

    X's and O's man and i'm not talking tic-tac-toe.
     
  17. davidghall

    davidghall Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    23
    The guy is clearly out of shape. That's just something we're going to have to live with. The thing I don't understand is why McHale plays him that many minutes when he's out of shape.

    If I were McHale I would tell James that he's not going to play any more than 30/35 minutes per game until he gets in better shape. At least that way Harden would be fresh while he's out there.

    Last night he was dog tired in the 4th and overtime and was essentially a negative player.
     
  18. jayland

    jayland Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    981
    Would you rather have Lin take the clutch shots after he showed last night he can even make a wide open layup when the game is on the line?

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Edward77547

    Edward77547 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    10
    If the coach would tell him to run a play he would run it, but he's not...
     
  20. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    28,687
    Likes Received:
    12,622
    he was selfish plain and simple.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now