Why do the advanced stats like Terrence Jones more than D-Mo?

Pretty sure he's a developmentally disabled relation of OHMSS'

 

He shot very little 3pt shots last season. Only 37 total shots, a little more than 1 attempt per game.

I think I read it somewhere that the coaches asked him not to shoot 3s. I could understand because he had been terrible the season before. You could tell he was very hesitant when he had an open 3.

Jones has never been an effective 3pt threat.

 

D-Mo is much, much better than Jones.

 

That's an illusion caused by a small sample. Dwight Howard shot 50% from the perimeter last season, would you say he's an effective 3 point shooter?

Include Jones' 3 point shots in the playoffs and his season totals are under 30% from 3. The 3 is just simply not something he's good at.

 

Demonstrably false.

 

How so? DMo is the better 3 point shooter, the better defender, the better post player, and he helps facilitate the offense better.

Jones is a slightly better rebounder and he gets more flashy blocks and dunks....but what else would lead anyone to think he was better than DMo?

Honest question.

 

Cause jones isn't a p***y when it comes to fighting for boards

 

He's slightly better than DMo, but he's not a good rebounder either. You really need to have more than that if you want to make a legitimate case.

 

How can ppl who paid attentionlast year still say DMo is better as a center? He had great defensive numbers as a PF and lousy ones as a center. Everyone acknowledged that.

 

D-Mo's, at best, marginally better as a defender. He struggles defending in space, his rim protection #s came back to Earth in the second half, and overall the team performed better defensively with him on the bench.

His improved 3pt shooting last year can't be dismissed, but given how historically awful he's been shooting above-the-break 3s, a sample of 74 FGA from that area of the floor is far too small for me to comfortably project for the future. He did bring his 2P jumpshot % up to around 38%, a bit better than Jones' 33.5% mark in 2013-14 (and much better than the appalling 25% mark that D-Mo hit that season), so it's fair to say he's the better shooter RIGHT NOW. But it's not a gigantic gap.

He's a much better passer and post player. But unlike, say, his countryman Valanciunas, he doesn't draw FTs out of the post (and when he does, he doesn't hit them at anywhere near an acceptable rate). So while it may be aesthetically pleasing to watch him play in the post, how EFFICIENT those plays are (especially with Lawson on the team and Dwight back) is, in my mind, debatable.

Now take Jones. Working as the #4 option in 2013-14, he averaged more points per minute than D-Mo did last year, and he did so at a more efficient rate. Jones is clearly more effective finishing at rim, which figures to make him a better fit next to our new PG, and his athleticism suggests future potential protecting the rim (though he's not there yet). Most importantly, he's younger, and had his breakout season at age 22 as opposed to 24, which is generally indicative of a brighter future.

Working back to the OP's original question, while D-Mo was more important to the 2014-15 team, he wasn't necessarily better than Jones was the year before. Harden was (which is just one reason why he should have won the MVP, but whatever).

I'm not saying Jones is definitively better. Both are good, young players. But at worst (or best, depending on your perspective) it's a push, and if you're asking me whose ceiling is higher, I'm picking Jones 100%.

 

You can make all the statistical arguments in the world, but can you answer one question, which is pretty clear to me.

Why has Jones always started over DMo?

Honest question.

 

one of the reasons might be that dwight prefers jones in the lineup with him since he then gets post-ups in the paint all to himself.

 

I'm sorry but I can't see how it's debatable; he was 3rd in PPP in the post. But maybe you have a different definition of efficient than I do.

 

Yes, and the PF position has vastly better players in the NBA than the center position. How should we factor that fact into the equation

 

This past season DMO had was far and away better than anything Jones has ever done. Dmo proved to be excellent at a few things and player that could be relied upon. Jones might have more talent across the board but he isn't good at anything in particular and does not excel at anything. He is also extremely inconsistent. How anyone could take him over DMO right now is beyond me.

 

It's debatable whether that's the most efficient play vs. Harden in isolation (more efficient than D-Mo in the post last year) or Harden/Lawson running the pick and roll with Howard and Jones.

 

2 pages of ****-and-bull before someone addresses why the disparity in advanced metrics.

In 2013-14, Terrence played alongside Harden and Howard for 1185 minutes of the 2078 total minutes he played. That's a shade over 57% of his floor time with Harden/Howard.

In 2014-15, DMo played alongside Howard/Harden for 487 minutes of the total 2037 minutes he played. That's just shy of 24% of his total minutes.

This fact combined with what bmd wrote (Jones playing over 1400 minutes as a pf alongside Dwight in 2014 compared to DMo barely playing any minutes at all alongside Dwight) accounts for the difference in metrics.

If you ISO 3-man combos with Dwight/James you will easily see we are more effective with DMo alongside our big 2 than with Terrence beside them.

 

No, DMo is night and day better as a defender. Jones is actually a fairly poor defender, he doesn't make proper rotations and is out of position A LOT. Even when he's not out of position, any halfway decent PF abuses him in the post. Let's not confuse someone getting blocks for them playing good defense.

Jones shoots 3's in the 20's, DMo shoots them in the high 30's. That's a "gigantic gap" IMO.

28.5% is what Jones shot last year (including playoffs) from 3, 36.8% is what DMo shot.

Arguing FT's is not a winner becuase Jones and DMo shoot FT's at basically the same rate....also if you look at PPP for DMo in the post, there's literally no way you can argue that it's not EFFICIENT. It's one of the most efficient things the Rockets did last season. Having Lawson on the team only makes that better because now we'll have someone who can make a proper pass to the post.

I've never suggested that Jones isn't really good at finishing at the rim when others create open dunks for him....I just don't think that's such an impressive thing it should make up for the fact that he can't consistently and efficiently create his own shot or space the floor with the 3. Now if he could do either of those two things, and play competent defense, I'd be higher on him.

I just can't go along with that. Jones has the athleticism but like I've said above, he's an incompetent defender and outside of transition, garbage baskets, or layups and dunks created by others, he doesn't really bring all that much to an offense.

I just don't see the tools, other than athleticism, for Jones to be anything more than just a decent backup quality PF.

Early in their careers Jones was more productive, because he was the same level he is at now and DMo's game hadn't progressed. DMo was missing his post shots and was in the 20's as a 3 point shooter.

They gave him a shot at the beginning of this year, but DMo really distanced himself from Jones while he was hurt. Had DMo not been hurt, Jones would have been 3rd string at PF.